fast pickers, help :)

[silentrage]

For all you shredders out there (and anyone else who plays fast really),
I have a question about economy picking.

I've been playing for 4 years, I'm striving to be as fast and clean as possible and I got a book by ROBOT on guitar techniques who firmly believes that economy picking is the way to go.
So I got into that and after a while it just feels very natural to always pick any multi-string passages with economy.

But I recently went through some of my other training materials, namely John Petrucci's rock discipline and Guthrie Govan's guitar method books who recommend a really solid grasp of alternate picking before going into economy.

As I was following these, I found it very awkward to actually do full out alternate-picking as my hands would try to economy anytime string change was involved, and I had to slow way the heck down and really mentally focus on keeping the alternating action.

My question is, is it necessary to become good and fast with alternate if I find economy more comfortable already? keep in mind that I'm still quite slow at the moment and the fastest I can play clean is MAYBE 16th at 120 bpm.

[Muzzzz]

i dunno, i really find that when i'm economy picking, it's harder to get it rhythmical, whereas alternate picking runs,to me, feels comparitively very rhythmical... and while alternate picking may seem technically more difficult, it means that you dont have to think about when to do 2 upstrokes/downstrokes in a row.

but i definitely think its a good idea to have a grounding in both, no matter which you decide to choose in the end.

[noodleplugerine]

You definetly need a grounding in both.

Economy picking just isn't suitable sometimes, and you can't get the same attack that you get with Alternate picking.

Listen to any Paul Gilbert song if you don't know what I'm talking about.


But either way - You're stuck in the rut that all people warn against - If you use one too much, you'll lose the other. Start slowly, concentrating on your right hand, and just play up and down the strings - Speeding up as you go - You'll get the hang of it eventually.

[Muso]

To be honest mate alternate picking is generally a harder technique I think you should definately learn alternate picking to some degree before going over to economy.
Alternate picking allows you to play fairly evenly at all times whereas economy will give u a smoother sound when crossing strings ala sweep picking.
Both paul gilbert and petrucci arn't very well rounded guitarists and tend to overuse alternate picking, I guess its their trademark but it sounds overpractised imo. You might wanna check out greg howes technique, hes pretty much got it all or richie kotzen.
One of my fave alternate pickers is Steve Morse, he extensively uses alternate picking but unlike other shredders hes very diverse and can play lots of different music styles. His album "high tension wires" is a classic and theres lots of great licks on there to learn. If you really want to master alternate picking I'd reccomend "tumeni notes" by steve morse, its cross picking arpeggios and very musical its the best alternate picking exercise I've found.
If you like a smoother sound when playing gear yourself more towards economy as your playing will be smoother but if you want lots of attack ala paul gilbert use alternate.
Personally I love sweep picking, alternate picking is secondary in my playing. Economy requires less effort and you can bust out a really quick arpeggio which would be impossible to do at the same speed using alternate.

[MrBump]

I love sweep picking, but it's the same with any specific technique - if you over use it, it just sounds really clinical.  Same with heavy alternate picking.

Mix and match, small a small flurry of amazing technique followed by tasteful phrasing, that's what floats my boat.  If all you hear is constant flawless technique, it gets kinda dull...

If you look at some of Frank Gambales stuff on YouTube you can see a real difference in him over the years.  He was a shredder in the 80s.  Now he seems far more tasteful in his playing.

+1 on Steve Morse though - cracking player who seems to have it all.

Mark.

[PoshCollins]

I personally can't stand economy picking.

I'd recommend that you get to grips with speed picking first. Try the Pablo Gilberto exercise.

There's two really good ones to do.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ROYgceF8LrI

...And when you get the idea of it ,try this;

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gHgsWXFOfU0&feature=related

Hope that helps.

[Will]

That really does make me wonder about whether I am a fast picker or not.
I trained my right hand early on(on guitar, not on anything dirty...), and was doing ZW type boxxy licks quite quickly, and think I came across economy by myself as a way to make alternate easier. (other people I know seem to have been all about the fretting and downpicking away). Also feel that my up pick is quite strong, and almost equal in feel to the down
Although not a guitar god, I guess all these different exercises can only diversify you.

[silentrage]

Thanks for the tips everyone, I will definitely check out steve morse.

I know what you guys mean by alternate picking having a nice even attack, when petrucci goes on autopilot you can really hear the constant, almost machine-like pick attack.

I think being able to do both styles will probably give me the most amount of control and flexibility, so I'll work on both now.

[Dave_the_rave]

see i never learnt to economy pick, i think :/ and i've never been fantastic at sweeping, but man, i do love alternate picking, that i can do no problem at high speed ^^