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Poll

Best pickup for a good old Strat tone in a SRV Signature Strat

Mother's Milk
8 (53.3%)
Apaches
7 (46.7%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: May 04, 2008, 07:10:55 PM

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Author Topic: Stratocaster Pickup Recommendation  (Read 11097 times)

Tomcaster

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Stratocaster Pickup Recommendation
« on: May 04, 2008, 07:10:55 PM »
Hi,

another thread on Strat pickups! Basically I can't decide between Apaches and MM's, so I need help from some experienced users here.

The Strat the BKP's will be installed to is a SRV sig (with pao ferro neck & alder body). It has the strongest acoustic sound I have ever heard from a Strat (and I mean including Fender Custom Shop) so I wanted to add pickups to match the incredible wood. Texas Specials sound good already but I want something special like BKPs - scatterwound, handmade like in the old days. The acoustic sound of the SRV Strat has a lot of growl and a certain mid freq emphasis (compared to my maple strat which is brighter ).

My vision of tone is very simple. It should sound like a good old Strat.

I'd like the neck woodyness of Jimi Hendrix "Hey Joe" or the in-between glassiness of "Little Wing". I'd like to get something which could match Sultans of Swing in the middle position finally. Middle & bridge can be anything by Dire Straits "Communique". Overdriven performance: Neck should be SRV territory (Texas Flood). I would love to get "Cocaine" by Eric Clapton in the middle position.  For Bridge & Middle I like Chris Rea's "Let's Dance". Pure bridge is the violin-like Eric Johnson tone

What I don't like are overwound pickups because all those guys (also including SRV) used standard vintage pickups.

Beside, the SRV has a 12 inch neck radius so I wonder whether it wouldn't make sense to take a pickup set without stagger to get better string balance. Wouldn't that take a away some sound?

What's the best choice?

Thanks in advance!!!

(edited for corrections regarding fretboard wood)
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PhilKing

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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 08:43:14 PM »
Hi,  you are after quite a variety of tones, as Hendrix had late 60's Strats, Mark Knopler, Chris Rhea and Stevie Ray all have early 60's, Clapton and Eric Johnson have 50's.  All of them have different pickups and the capacitors were different from the 50's to the late 60's.  I have Apaches (with and without baseplates), Mother's Milks, Slowhands, Irish Tours, Sultans and Sinners in different guitars (some in HSS sets), and even they give different tones based on the woods .  

To add to it you have an SRV strat (which I thought had a pau ferro fingerboard not ebony?).  You could do a mixed set, an Apache neck will get the sounds you are looking for, the Mothers Milks are a little brighter and would perhaps suit the middle, and getting RWRP will get the notched 'in-between sounds), and for the bridge I would again look at the Apache or perhaps a Slowhand if you want a little more mid push.

As a single set, I would go for the Apaches, they will give you the best strat tones out of the box.
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Tomcaster

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 09:27:31 PM »
I think early 60s nail my expectations pretty well

a) Jimi Hendrix used his CBS Strats & huge Marhall stacks mainly for live performances. For his studio sound he took early 60s Strats + Fender amps.

b) Eric Johnson used a blue '65 Strat for the "Venus Isle" album (e.g. for "Manhattan", "SRV") - this was already CBS but they used up existing stocks of early 60s materials

c) Mark Knopfler is obvious in this case, as is Chris Rea and Stevie Ray Vaughan (btw. Fender's Custom Shop reported that #1's pickups were not overwound)

The pickups in Eric Clapton's Blackie are not 50's but 70's pickups (documentation from the Fender Custom Shop is available). To me they sound really nice and fat and have a lot of 60's flavour.

PhilKing, you are absolutely right - the SRV sig's fretboard material is Pao Ferro, not Ebony. Generally speaking, are Apaches or MMs better suited for this kind of neck?
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Elliot

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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 09:59:47 PM »
You could ask Tim to make some Alnico V Apaches - that way you would have early 60s spec.  In fact I might get some myself if I have a few quid floating around.
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BKPS: Milks, P90s, Apaches, Mississippi Queens, Mules, PG Blues, BG FP 50s, e.60s strat custom set

Ted

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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 11:40:42 PM »
Man I would go for Irish Tours, they got the poke for all those tones and you can really tame them down too.

Apaches are very good too. I've never played MM.
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tremblox

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« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2008, 02:50:29 PM »
Quote from: Elliot
You could ask Tim to make some Alnico V Apaches - that way you would have early 60s spec.  In fact I might get some myself if I have a few quid floating around.


Elliot how would an Alnico V Apache be different to a MM ? Wouldn't they be the same thing apart from a few turns or am I missing something here ?

All thanks,
                  tremblox
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38thBeatle

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Stratocaster Pickup Recommendation
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2008, 03:45:49 PM »
As I don't have a set of MMs I cannot compare them to  Apaches though I have played a Strat with some MM's in and they were sweet. Apaches are very traditional Strat tones. I played a couple of gigs over the weekend and the tone I get always makes me smile. Invariably I get a punter asking about my guitar-a rather gig worn 1970's Strat( that means it is cr*p of course  :wink:  ) and without exception, the comments are always to the effect that my Strat sounds great. I don't recall getting many such comments  when it had EMGs in it.
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BKP's: Apache, Country Boy, Slowhands.

Elliot

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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2008, 04:12:10 PM »
Alnico V Apaches would also have Formvar wire instead of plain enamel - which does affect tone.  As I understand it Fender moved to plain enamel in about 64-65 (based on Seymour Duncan's web site) - so you would be getting early sixties style pickups rather than mid 60s.  I suppose that's the tone of Surf guitarists like Dick Dale.

MMs are very nice btw and nail that Hendrix/Curtis Mayfield tone perfectly when clean and the SRV tone when whacked up.

As to overwound - My MMs are 5.9k except the bridge which is about 6.6k - so not overwound at all.
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BKPS: Milks, P90s, Apaches, Mississippi Queens, Mules, PG Blues, BG FP 50s, e.60s strat custom set

tremblox

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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2008, 04:20:47 PM »
Quote from: Elliot
Alnico V Apaches would also have Formvar wire instead of plain enamel - which does affect tone.  As I understand it Fender moved to plain enamel in about 64-65 (based on Seymour Duncan's web site) - so you would be getting early sixties style pickups rather than mid 60s.

MMs are very nice btw.


Thanks Elliot - I'd fogotten about the Formvar. I had Tim rewind a set of Fralin Blues (I think) some years ago. He did essentially an Apache wind on these Alnico V magnets. In the neck of my Alder/rosewood strat I prefer this rewind to the Apaches (more spring and bounce in the notes - more "surf" if you will). By rolling off the tone control a bit I could get fairly close to the Apache sound, but couldn't get quite the solo "chewiness" of the Apaches. The Alnico V seems to give me far less "cluttered" chords though, a good degree clearer and better note definition (those highs again). I've no doubt that Alnico V Apaches would sound wonderful - heck, like you, I might even order a couple myself.

  cheers
       tremblox
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Tomcaster

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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2008, 04:46:18 PM »
I like the idea of such a hybrid solution (Formvar with Alnico 5's) a lot. Let's wait for Tim's opinion on this!

Are the Apaches fine with a rosewood neck or would they be too warm?
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Elliot

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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2008, 06:23:40 PM »
Not at all - Apaches sound absolutely great with rosewood.
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BKPS: Milks, P90s, Apaches, Mississippi Queens, Mules, PG Blues, BG FP 50s, e.60s strat custom set

PhilKing

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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2008, 06:46:05 PM »
Tim will make the Apaches with AV, he is making me a set and an extra one as a replacement for a custom SD in my 61 strat.  I hadn't suggested it because I don't know if it is something that he was doing as a one off for me, or if he will be offering them as an option.
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Canadian Steve

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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2008, 09:27:10 PM »
I would go for the Apaches with an Alnico III (V would be OK as well) and I wouldn't get an RWRP middle.  I had an RWRP in a previous set and prefer the in between tones of Strat pickups without the RWRP middle.
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BKPS: Cryogenic Apache set, Mule set, Riff Raff, Stormy Monday.

Tomcaster

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Stratocaster Pickup Recommendation
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2008, 11:23:44 AM »
OK guys, I have gathered some more info on Jimi's sound (the one I want specifically).

 Jimi used a '65 Strat to record "Hey Joe", "Purple Haze" and "Electric Ladyland". Both the Black and Fiesta Red Strats he played at Monterey were 1965 Stratocasters.

The 65's sported 0.026 plain enamel wire with a grey fiber bobbin and Alnico 5's. Compared to the late 60's pickups, it had more winds around, therefore sounding less bright.

Here's a pic of a 1965 pickup:



EDITED: after speaking to some more experienced guys around I'm not sure anymore if those pickups were plain enamel. Early 1965 pickups *could* still also be formvar possibly
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Tomcaster

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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 02:55:10 PM »
Hi guys,

just wanted to let you know that I contacted our great Tim Mills. After I had described my needs (vintage 60s sound with a 60s spec Stratocaster, 11s detuned to Eb) he recommended stock wound Apaches. This makes a lot of sense to me - a weak formvar based pickup with soft magnets has that great slightly aged sound that can bring me close to the greatest Strat sounds of history. Additionally, I asked Tim about the stagger and he recommended flat profile for a 12" fretboard.

I will place an order today, also incl. a wired pickguard. Tim recommends 300k pots because he thinks that many 250k pots are in fact much weaker than specified. Another good observation of him - as far as I know the Eric Johnson Strat also sports 300k pots and Alnico 3 pickups!

Man, this will get me a wonderful and musical pickup (heard some recordings here) PLUS great string-to-string balance PLUS great electronics. Oh yeah!!!
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