Author Topic: Competetors for Bill Lawrence L500XL (Read 35769 times)

gwEm · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:05:01 PM »

i'm sure everyone uses a winding machine, even if its just a sewing machine motor or whatever. i suppose its the degree of automation we're talking about. i think its important that the machine enables the winder to do scatterwinding.

MDV · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:12:25 PM »

Quote from: WezV

Quote from: MDV
Well, they claim 'handwound', but yeah, most of the time it means their hand pushed the button on an auto-shutoff winder.

its not like any pickup maker actually sits and winds a bobbin by hand - i challenge anyone to be able to do more than a few hundred winds without snapping the wire... let alone the 5000+ needed for a decent pickup

handwound to me means that a pickup maker sits at his pickup winding machine and makes sure that tension is kept constant and the wire is filling up the bobbin nicely.

Methinks Tim would beg to differ ;)

WezV · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:15:09 PM »

what, you reckon tim winds each coil by hand... i.e tim holding a bobbin in one hand and a spool of wire in another!!!

PhilKing · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:21:35 PM »

I have watched BK's made and Wez is completely right. The bobbins turn on a winding maching (in this case a modified lathe I think), and whoever is doing the winding guides the wire by hand and they make the scatterwound pattern as they fill the bobbin.

MDV · « **Reply #19 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:22:10 PM »

No, wez, thats not what I meant. I meant that all the winds are guided by hand onto a rotating thing (lathe in tims case edit -yep, phil, lathe)

Difference between that and what most do is they start off a winder, go have do something else, come back to finished pickups.

gingataff · « **Reply #20 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:25:07 PM »

Quote from: MDV

Quote from: WezV
Quote from: MDV
Well, they claim 'handwound', but yeah, most of the time it means their hand pushed the button on an auto-shutoff winder.

its not like any pickup maker actually sits and winds a bobbin by hand - i challenge anyone to be able to do more than a few hundred winds without snapping the wire... let alone the 5000+ needed for a decent pickup

handwound to me means that a pickup maker sits at his pickup winding machine and makes sure that tension is kept constant and the wire is filling up the bobbin nicely.

Methinks Tim would beg to differ ;)

Although he does make it sound simple

I think Wez is right;

Quote from: Tim

Just for reference it's not the bobbin moving or a machine guiding the wire-here at BKP we guide the wire onto the bobbin through our fingers while the bobbin is rotated on a flywheel. The tension and wind pattern is determined by the person doing the winding and it's impossible for a machine, computer or whatever to reproduce this.

REF.
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4180&highlight=machine

MDV · « **Reply #21 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

Quote from: gingataff

Quote from: MDV
Quote from: WezV
Quote from: MDV
Well, they claim 'handwound', but yeah, most of the time it means their hand pushed the button on an auto-shutoff winder.

its not like any pickup maker actually sits and winds a bobbin by hand - i challenge anyone to be able to do more than a few hundred winds without snapping the wire... let alone the 5000+ needed for a decent pickup

handwound to me means that a pickup maker sits at his pickup winding machine and makes sure that tension is kept constant and the wire is filling up the bobbin nicely.

Methinks Tim would beg to differ ;)

Although he does make it sound simple I think Wez is right;
Quote from: Tim
Just for reference it's not the bobbin moving or a machine guiding the wire-here at BKP we guide the wire onto the bobbin through our fingers while the bobbin is rotated on a flywheel. The tension and wind pattern is determined by the person doing the winding and it's impossible for a machine, computer or whatever to reproduce this.

REF.
http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4180&highlight=machine

I misread Wez's original post (skimmed it). Of course thats what he does. I didnt realise that he thought that I thought that anyone sat with the bobbin in one hand and the wire in the other. Thats mental. I guess it didnt register. Its the guiding every turn by hand that I consider handwinding, and setting off a machine that both guides the wire and winds the pickup that is not (but many claim it is, for some reason).

Everything clear now?

WezV · « **Reply #22 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:52:23 PM »

i do like to make things sound simple, thats how i get my head around it!!!

i just wanted to be clear on what we all meant by handwinding because as far as i am aware bill and becky also sit and monitor the machines as they are running, although i am not sure if they are completely hand guiding the wire like with BKP's

to me tension is key... any fool with a drill can scatterwind a pickup (i have done it with my drill press

), but getting it scatterwound and getting a nicely tensioned non-microphonic coil is a bit harder

ilÿti · « **Reply #23 on:** June 04, 2008, 02:01:15 PM »

Quote from: MDV

I think so, yeah, but hes rather scornfull of scatterwindy goodness. AFAIK its only BK and Wolfetone that do that (please add to this list if you know others!)

Wagner, Motorcity, Heussel... pretty sure there's a bunch, but none of them have the selection BKP offers.

MDV · « **Reply #24 on:** June 04, 2008, 02:09:52 PM »

Quote from: ilyti

Quote from: MDV
I think so, yeah, but hes rather scornfull of scatterwindy goodness. AFAIK its only BK and Wolfetone that do that (please add to this list if you know others!)

Wagner, Motorcity, Heussel... pretty sure there's a bunch, but none of them have the selection BKP offers.

Cool. Cheers ilyti.

Yeah, wez, as I understand it the tension is pretty vital - the amount and the way you change the tension (lower it) as you get to the outer winds, too.

dave_mc · « **Reply #25 on:** June 04, 2008, 02:45:07 PM »

Quote from: MDV

I think so, yeah, but hes rather scornfull of scatterwindy goodness. AFAIK its only BK and Wolfetone that do that (please add to this list if you know others!)

loads of guys scatterwind, as far as i'm aware.

don't want to post on the forum, but you can drop me a pm if you like...

MDV · « **Reply #26 on:** June 04, 2008, 03:53:58 PM »

Quote from: dave_mc

Quote from: MDV
I think so, yeah, but hes rather scornfull of scatterwindy goodness. AFAIK its only BK and Wolfetone that do that (please add to this list if you know others!)

loads of guys scatterwind, as far as i'm aware.

don't want to post on the forum, but you can drop me a pm if you like...

Nah, thats OK. I'm only mildy curious. Thanks anywho mate.

Spitfire · « **Reply #27 on:** June 04, 2008, 05:07:01 PM »

what makes you think the Bill Lawrence USA ones are cr@ppy and the Bill and Becky ones arnt??

Dime liked his Bill Lawrence USA 500XL.. i didnt really, the 500L is where its at!!

ilÿti · « **Reply #28 on:** June 04, 2008, 05:17:52 PM »

Quote from: Spitfire

what makes you think the Bill Lawrence USA ones are cr@ppy??

Dime

There you have it.

(okay I know that's not really what you were asking, but I just can't resist taking a slab at Dime)

Philly Q · « **Reply #29 on:** June 04, 2008, 05:22:09 PM »

Just in case anyone missed it, there was this thread a few weeks ago about the two different "Bill Lawrence" manufacturers:

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12644&highlight=lawrence