Why do people use these guitars??

[FELINEGUITARS]

I vote for buying up the good guitars from the 80s (or whatever period) and getting them pimped out to really perform - or go total custom built.

the first step is to ensure that all the hardware is solid and that the guitar sounds good acoustically. Then get a set of BKPs, and if needed get a new lick of paint or have it refretted (do a Johnny Mac!)

OK- I'm spoilt because I can do all this to my own guitars, but some of the secondhand stuff that does the rounds has SO much potential that just needs unlocking

[jt]

:D OK for the record i owned a ibanez RG470 i tried ibanez guitars back in the day & HJM is right the earlier models are far better this was because they were trying to establish the brand as the Big one ie bigger & better than Gibson, Fender etc care & attention went into there quality control but since the`ve become so big as with Gibbo, Fender etc the QC has gone down hill. it`s also fair comment to make that Jackson/Charvel are all S**t build quaity as well again you need to find one from the 80`s in order to get a good`un.

there`s also another issue, most kids don`t have a lot of money so in order to keep costs down manufactuers have started to build guitars down to a cost. this is why so many shops only sell either cheap guitars or really expensive ones. theres no inbetween guitars £800 - £1400 price range.

 :D  8)

[Ratrod]

So who are the sinners and saints of production guitar quality control?

I hear alot of bad things against Gibson but Fender (which were notorious for being c**p in QC in the early 80s) seem to get off lightly these days.  Is it that the big F have improved or do people just expect their guitars to buzz and rattle at all actions?

Reverend is deffinately a saint when it comes to QC. The instument was flawless when it arrived. But then, it's a small company.

[Joe Dorcia]

Ok guys, now i've noticed one thing everyone has said.

1. Ibanez PUPs are now cr@p
2. Fretting and action are terrible out of the factory, but the two i played were (i think) set up by the tech there to they are good (cheers kev).
3. Older models are always better in pretty much any long-term manufacturer - this excludes the CBS period of Fender obviously.

But why is it that they have gone so downhill?? Corperate buyouts maybe? Although they still employ good luthiers for high-end stuff, the guitars meer mortals can afford is made by machines in Mexico, Japan, Korea etc. What your forgetting is that computers can make a guitar to  higher quality than any human, it wouldnt be unique, but it could be perfect. CNC machining makes accuracy extremely high and cost-efficient. The stuff done badly, eg fretting, setups etc, your local tech or you can sort out.

Pups too can be sorted for £100 or so off BKP, easy!

I think the problem lies in the wood, which FYI no one has mentioned. Wood quality has become so poor over the past 10 years, mahogany especially, and is now nearing the extinction list (its on a list but not the extinction list yet i think) and the wood being used is old tree stumps and the parts that no one wanted in the 'good old years'. Now manufacturers have to buy in what they can get, from tree farms around the world and when they get to the factorys, they are rarely checked over like they should be. Sometimes you can get looky and get a fantastic piece of wood in a run of the mill guitar, explaining all the mixed reviews of every guitar out there.

You can see this problem in any large company - lets take fender (coz i own 2) I have a MEX strat, pretty light, made of ash, nice guitar, i love to play it - thi of course will have little Quality control on the raw wood. But compare it too my USA strat, and you will see the difference wood makes. It's heavier and has a much better, fuller tone, again made of ash. It is just a better guitar, because of the extra care taken over wood choices.

Elliot Wrote:

So who are the sinners and saints of production guitar quality control?

I hear alot of bad things against Gibson but Fender (which were notorious for being c**p in QC in the early 80s) seem to get off lightly these days. Is it that the big F have improved or do people just expect their guitars to buzz and rattle at all actions?

Try a Suhr guitar. They are technically perfect by every means. But play one and you may fid them sterile and lifeless. No one knows why! They may just be too perfect. Its the same for me with PRS and Tyler and everyone else like that. They spend so much time making amazing finishes, the tone of the guitar seems to go, weird. If anyone else can shed some light on this i want to learn, lol. As my drummer says, "its the imperfections make it beautiful and unique."

I hope this has helped.

Please post if you disagree, the truth about manufacturers MUST BE TOLD!

Cheers,
Joe

[HJM]

That's a very good point

[Ratrod]

If you want more info about manufacturers that are 'scamming', check out the rants on Ed Roman's webpage. Don't take them too seriously but they're great fun to read.

[jt]

:D Most new guitars are not made of Mahogany. The wood that seems to be the " in vogue" wood is Bass wood. Ibanez use this wood quite abit. only the high end prestige ibanez stuff uses Mahogany. Again as was pointed out on an earlier reply you don`t no what type of metal componds are being used to make much of the hardware that these guitars use. & as has been pointed out on the Ed Roman site many guitar manufacturers have there guitars made by the same factorys which means there probably useing hardware thats universal.
 
As for new guitars sounding sterile P/Us will play a part in that just listen to any of the SD range !  remeber it also takes a while for the woods used to settle + as wood gets older the sound properties it produces change. if what you hear in your head is the sounds after the wood has settled then maybe you should be looking to by second hand instead.

 :D  8)

[tav]

Obviously I'm talking about a different animal, but I can't fault my new Ibanez AXS32 (set-neck, double cutaway). It's got a slightly less organic feel than my old Gordon Smith GS2, but is very nice nonetheless. Lots of life in the wood, easy to play apart from slight neck-heaviness. The frets are well dressed and the neck wasn't dry at all, so maybe it had a setup in the shop (Thomann.de), but whatever the case it was good straight out of the box.

I always thought that for quality and consistency, companies like Ibanez and Yamaha couldn't be faulted. I certainly have seen nothing to make me think otherwise

[HJM]

I'd say Yamaha are ahead - I had a pupil with a new Ibanez recently, at the 24th fret the top e was off the fretboard.....

[Joe Dorcia]

Thats aweful HJM. As ya'll may or may not know, I think that in either Taiwan or Korea (i forget which one, all the lines of manufacturers get so blurred) there are two huge factories. One makes nearly every guitar that comes under the sun, the other makes everything else u buy!

Ed Roman is definately a good/funny site, i found it when looking for "unique guitars" on google. But, for me, they all look to OTT. I still prefer classic looking guitars, LPs, Goldtops, Strats in white or 50's sunburst (or PINK, they look sweet). Of course if you could actually get a 50' or 60's strat, or a really old Gibson, you would have to have a good £5000 spare. It's such a shame guitars got so commercial, 'everyone' plays a guitar these days, but no-one seems to play a guitar 'well' or play a 'good' guitar. In my eyes a good guitarist can play powerful, melodic parts to make a song better (not just a solo for the sake of one, nor just metal shredding scales) as well as knowing all about their guitar(s). Like most ppl on this, you take time to find the right guitar, build up a collection of different tones/styles and make them play the best that they can. eg TO's custom finishes and necks, Felines Custom builds, tailored to his (or the customers) needs, or my strats, modded to give me exactly what i want.

I think the point im trying to say is, LEARN TO CHANGE KEY! lol.

Cheers guys, i enjoyed this post, made me feel wise even theough im only a young'un. Thanks

Joe

PS Tomorrow im doing some recording with my drummer with 4 of my BKP guitars. These will include the following, all in clean and distortion with lead/rhythm parts:-
1USA strat with Mid + Bridge IT, 4 positions, mid, in series, in parallel, bridge
2MEX strat with Mid + Bridge Apache, 3 positions, mid, in parallel, bridge
3Mex Tele with Yardbrid Neck, Pile driver bridge, stanard wiring
4Custom Build with various combos or BKP-90 mid and Blackdog bridge with one or two mixed with the fender SC neck (i had it left over from the other strat)

[lepersmeesa]

Well i have to disagree.

I have an Ibanez guitar, and I have quite a few friends with Ibanez's as well, so im not basing this on just my guitar. I would first off have to agree that Ibanez pickups are not the greatest but what other companies with guitars at that price have nice pickups. I think that manufactures like Epiphone install worst pickups on their guitars.

The wood quality i really don't think you should complain about. If you aren't going to pay for a £500+ guitar, then you shouldnt expect top quality wood. The starting range of Ibanez Prestige use basswood bodies, which allow the guitar to be light in weight, but thick in sound. I have an RGT2020 which is made out of mahogany, neck thru maple/bibinga neck with a rosewood fret board. My Ibanez has only been surpassed by very few guitars, mainly being hand built guitars such as Blackmachines, and PRS's.

I do how ever think this arguement is going nowhere because i completely understand where your coming from. I personally would never own a Gibson or Fender as i do not feel comfortable on them, and i do not feel comfortable paying through the nose because of the name. I think the necks on Gibsons are too fat and the laquer which comes on most necks is really horrible and becomes really slow to play. I also dont understand why you think that Ibanez have their string spacing too close to each other, as it is the same measurements as Fender spacing.

But as I say this is never going to be resolved, its down to a personal taste, i just felt i should give the otherside of the arguement.

[HJM]

The Petrucci model had closer spacing, my RGs feel wider than my strats. :?:

[Joe Dorcia]

I agree with you lepersmeesa. It is all down to personal taste. I dont know why the strings felt closer together to me. It could just be coz of the radius of the neck. ITs a shame about wood quality and that fedner and gibson charge so much for a name. This is why I am learning to build guitars myself. I wasnt meaning to sound rude before about Ibanez's, i just got carried away as usual. Ah well.

As you say its all down to personal preference. Personally, I hate PRS guitars, to me they have no character, but mny people swear by them. This could be due to that fact that it dont like clean humbucker sounds. At the end of the day, we're all still searching for that perfect guitar, i just hope i can build one for me in this lifetime, lol

Thanks for the convo guys

Joe

[Bob Johnson]

On the subject of the availabilty of high quality tonewoods there's definitely a world wide shortage of good stuff and companies faced with satisfying high volume demands at a competitive price are really in the poo. In the last 3 - 4 years the price of a Brazilian or Honduran mahogany body blank has increased by almost 300%. One piece swamp ash and alder bodies are getting hard to find and the price of quarter sawn maple, which to all accounts is still plentiful, is also rising. The totally ironic side of this is that countries like Brazil who are trying to protect certain species by not felling it for commercial purposes are doing nothing about the ranchers and farmers who are burning the stuff to make way for Soy crops and cattle. The far eastern guitar manufacturers are raping the Indonesian rain forests for timber to fill the gap but are not producing "quality" instuments in the process. This whole situation  is what is contributing to the general decline in guitar quality. CNC machining doesn't make up for the use of 3, 4, or 5 piece bodies and the volume manufacturing need for "convenience fits" in the neck to body interface ensures that every now and then the E string will fall off the edge of the fingerboard.

[Ratrod]

Limba is still available. It's an excellent tone wood. It's not a popular building material. The only thing it's good for is building guitars. I read that somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe we should be looking at other materials instead of wood in the future.