Mississippi Queen works Voodoo ....

[Fourth Feline]

Very nice review.

I think I'm like Badgermark, after my initial "WOW" on MQs, I'm struggling a little getting used to them. Unlike Badgermark - I'm getting too much bite for my liking!

But from your review, it sounds to me like we both need to experiment a little further with pickup heights... the missus is out tonight, think I'll get that screwdriver out!

Hi Andy,  :)

Try the range between about 1mm - 2mm. At that range - I found a sweet compression started to happen midway. I don't mean dull or muddy, but rather like switching on a Barber 'Tone Press' with some compressed signal blended in with the clean. This sound I refer to as 'chewy'.

The type of sound I mean can be heard on 'You Tube' during the opening few guitar phrases that Larry Carlton gets whilst playing the instumental " Just An Excuse" . I know he achieves it far differently - but it will answer the question " what the heck does he mean by 'chewy " ?

 In the end, I got 'chewy' tones  ( from a top set of 10.5 , 13, 17 strings ) at 1/16" ( 1.6 mm ).  At 1mm the hard edge / bite came back a bit - and at 3mm + they started to sound more Chuck berry than Larry Carlton /B.B.King e.t.c.  2mm was nice, but I liked the 'magic' of circa 1.5 mm .

I could also  hear how at even lower height settings,  someone like 'Stray Cat' would be able to play great Rockabilly.

If it helps, I tend to play ( and therefore set up the guitar ) in the middle toggle position a lot - and it is there it ended up sounding 'chewier' than the neck pickup alone - which sounded Jazzier.  

Being a creature of habit - I like to set both pickups to the same height as each other - and the bass at the same distance from the pickup as the treble end. I mention all this - as perhaps my particular 'habits' may be accidentally revealing the 'sweet spot' sooner.  So, try middle toggle - and move both pickps together to fall into ( and away from ) the zone I found.

Let us know how you got  on
  :D

[AndyR]

Thanks for that FF - lots of food for thought, I'll give it a go.

I think one of my problems is that I'm originally a strat player (still am!) and I've also got a fair amount of humbucker experience, but this is the first set of p90 types I've ever played, so I don't really know what they can do for me and how they fit in.

When I installed the MQs, for the first day or two it was "WOW! this is the best of both worlds, is this what I've been searching for all my life?...", but, of course, it's not "the best of both worlds", they create a sound all of their own. And it didn't help that within a week I'd bought a Love Rock to house my Mules, and I've gone all Brian Robertson and Paul Kossoff since then!

I suspect that I keep approaching the MQs in a "humbucker" or "fender-type-single-coil" frame of mind (more the former at the moment) which kind of restricts what I can get out of them. Before I start adjusting tonight, I'll make sure I don't touch any of the other guitars first - the SG with it's MQs gets a whole night of loving to itself...

And, Badgermark, yeah, I agree with you, "struggle" is putting it way too strong for me as well, my bad choice of word, sorry about that!  :)

[Fourth Feline]

Thanks for that FF - lots of food for thought, I'll give it a go.

I think one of my problems is that I'm originally a strat player (still am!) and I've also got a fair amount of humbucker experience, but this is the first set of p90 types I've ever played, so I don't really know what they can do for me and how they fit in.

When I installed the MQs, for the first day or two it was "WOW! this is the best of both worlds, is this what I've been searching for all my life?...", but, of course, it's not "the best of both worlds", they create a sound all of their own. And it didn't help that within a week I'd bought a Love Rock to house my Mules, and I've gone all Brian Robertson and Paul Kossoff since then!

I suspect that I keep approaching the MQs in a "humbucker" or "fender-type-single-coil" frame of mind (more the former at the moment) which kind of restricts what I can get out of them. Before I start adjusting tonight, I'll make sure I don't touch any of the other guitars first - the SG with it's MQs gets a whole night of loving to itself...

And, Badgermark, yeah, I agree with you, "struggle" is putting it way too strong for me as well, my bad choice of word, sorry about that!  :)

Just one very important 'P.S.' that I should have included in my initial review Andy - is that the M.Qs are VERY sensitive to the pick material being used.  I get those warm tones because I use B.K.P's heaviest celluloid plectrum. I think it is a bout 1.21mm - but definately feels / sounds softer than one of the same thickness but of another brand name.

When I tried a packet of the Dunlop 'Eric Johnson' JazzIII type picks, the sound from the M.Qs was very bright indeed. Nothing offensive to the ears - but enogh to prove to me that M.Qs are a base material on which we must experiment with all parameters '

So ...

If Tim sent you one of the thicker plectrums in with your pickups, try playing with that for warmth - or a Dunlop Jazz III type plecky to really bring out the 'snap'  .

The thing that surprised me initially ,  is that  Eric Johnson is meant to be a 'smooth' sounding player. I then remembered that Larry Carlton and Dave Gilmour both play on the bridge pickup a lot - so it is of course that 'alchemy'  of balance between ALL the factors in the tone chain that get the end result.

By the way , I.M.H.O your penchant for Brian Robertson and Paul Kossoff shows very good taste ...  8)

[Buddha]

great review fourth feline - not helping my gas for a semi - hollow though  :x  :lol:

[_tom_]

Just received my neck MQ and installed it. First impression is that its quite similar to a neck humbucker. It just has a bit more brightness/twang to it. Not sure if this is the sound I wanted yet but I've only been able to have my amp quiet so I cant really make a good judgement til later when my sister goes out so I can get the amp a bit louder.

edit - just got to crank the amp, I love this pickup :) Great tones, it just sounds like a singlecoil on steroids to me which is good.

Heres a quick clip though the playing is cr@p http://download.yousendit.com/DD0F513E75D33B0B

so how much different does the bridge one sound?

[Fourth Feline]

Just received my neck MQ and installed it. First impression is that its quite similar to a neck humbucker. It just has a bit more brightness/twang to it. Not sure if this is the sound I wanted yet but I've only been able to have my amp quiet so I cant really make a good judgement til later when my sister goes out so I can get the amp a bit louder.

edit - just got to crank the amp, I love this pickup :) Great tones, it just sounds like a singlecoil on steroids to me which is good.

Heres a quick clip though the playing is cr@p http://download.yousendit.com/DD0F513E75D33B0B

so how much different does the bridge one sound?

I find the bridge sounds very similar, but you can still hear it is the bridge pickup. The bridge sounding a tad more nasal and focused ( in the way I have them set ) .  As I mentioned at the start,  think of the neck sounding like the sound " Aaaaaahhh " - and the neck will sound like " Oooohh".

However, when using brighter E.Q. / harder pick material / perhaps lowering the pickup further from the strings it can sound like a Telecaster bridge if needed - quite machine gun like.  

The overall answer is still " it will sound similar " - but with such an amount of variation available from just the neck pickup, you will appreciate that perhaps the most accurate answer is " what do you you want it to sound like " ?  - as the same tone seeking / adjusting rules apply to both positions.

I would still recommend that one day you get one and find out, - as I feel that these ( B.K.P versions ) are true classics of the pickup world - and will never loose personal or financial value.

I would still be interested ( due to the percieved diffrence in our styles /uses ) - as to what pickup height you ended up with - and to what tonal effect.   :)

[_tom_]

I think I see what you mean. I may give the bridge one a go, but the Rebel Yell I have in there at the minute sounds pretty nice.

At the minute I have it raised so that when I press down on the 22nd fret, theres a gap of about 3mm between the string and polepieces on either end, maybe a little closer on the treble end. It sounds pretty good to me now. Does adjusting the individual polepieces affect much? I just have them left flat at the minute.

[Fourth Feline]

great review fourth feline - not helping my gas for a semi - hollow though  :x  :lol:

Thank you ,  :D

I must confess that the semi - hollow is proving to be the most intimate and addictive guitar I have touched in decades. It has even surpased the Telecaster in the 'enigma' stakes.  As I found myself, you can upgrade / have a very good one at a fraction of Gibson prices. It would still be nice to own the USA version one day, but because of what it symbolises as a collector's piece, not because the competition ( equiped with B.K.P of course ) sounds inadequate.   :)

[Fourth Feline]

I think I see what you mean. I may give the bridge one a go, but the Rebel Yell I have in there at the minute sounds pretty nice.

At the minute I have it raised so that when I press down on the 22nd fret, theres a gap of about 3mm between the string and polepieces on either end, maybe a little closer on the treble end. It sounds pretty good to me now. Does adjusting the individual polepieces affect much? I just have them left flat at the minute.

They say the polepiece height setting do make a difference, but on a shallow radius gutar I have experimeted - and ended up leaving them as Tim sends them out. The only exception being where I may have a pure nickel wound low 'E' in a mahoghany guitar - and therefore lift that polepiece just a little more for optimum detail / response.

Pickup height wise, ( measured in the same way as you do ) I have settled on 1.6 mm all round - as I like the slight compression I am hearing at that point. I can hear how there is more 'air' in the sound at 3mm though.  

I do understand why you would want to keep the 'Rebel Yell' in the bridge though ; a definate contrast AND the M.Q. neck seems to sit very nicely with other B.K.P models.

The best of both worlds...  :D

[Fourth Feline]

Attempting to attach a photo folks ...  :oops:

[_tom_]

I think 3mm-ish seems to be about right, it has a bit of thickness without being too smooth for me.

Do you still have the Laney amp? I'd like to hear what you think of the bridge MQ with the gain wound up a bit for some rock tones, if you're at all into that sort of thing  :twisted:

[Fourth Feline]

I think 3mm-ish seems to be about right, it ha s a bit of thickness without being too smooth for me.

Do you still have the Laney amp? I'd like to hear what you think of the bridge MQ with the gain wound up a bit for some rock tones, if you're at all into that sort of thing  :twisted:

Hi Tom, I still have the Laney amp, but have no place to 'wind it up ' these days. When the neighbours are all out, I must remember to at least experiment through the amp modeler in my G-Dec Junior.  Having said that, I'm not your best man for 'Rock' tones ...  :roll:

[AndyR]

Glad we're using the same method of measuring pickup height - I was going to ask that.

Anyway, I've had two chances to adjust the MQs in my SG, the other night, and this morning now all the neighbours are up (well, they probably are now  :twisted: )

Conclusion: these are stunning pups... (now I just have to make my mind how I prefer them adjusted).

I did have them quite far from the strings originally, but at the end of thursday night, they were both set at approx 3mm (slightly lower on the bass side).

3mm gives me a gorgeous neck tone, utterly gorgeous, but turning it up this morning, the bridge was a touch thin in comparison. Nice sound, but for me, the difference between the neck and bridge was just TOO different! After much head scratching and "what is it that Philly hears then?!" I reread all this thread again.

I decided to bite the bullet and push the pups much closer to the strings than I like for humbuckers and fender-singles - ie I went for that  1- 2 mm range that FF recommends above.

WHoa!!  :D

I'm set at about 2mm now...
You're right FF - "chewy" is the word, isn't it?
I haven't lost too much of what I liked about the neck at 3mm, but to balance the bridge, it's worth it.
The bridge, moving from 3mm to 2mm has lost none of its bite, but has thickened up nicely.
And at last, Philly, I can hear what you're talking about: it's only a subtle difference between neck and bridge now - luckily much to my taste. And again FF's "ooohh" and "aaahh" description nails it.
I have to say, I am amazed at the variation (compared to HBs and other SCs) in character that you can get with height adjustment on these pickups .

I'm going to leave them at this height for a week or so, and then perhaps experiment with a smidgeon lower if I miss that "air" in the neck too much (I suspect I won't).

The impression I'm coming away with from this morning's fiddling is "closer to the strings" if you want more humbucker-type behaviour from your MQs, "further from the strings" takes you more towards single-coil-on-steroids territory...

In my mind, this seems to fit with how I've understood everything you've said above FF - many thanks for the help!

[Fourth Feline]

The impression I'm coming away with from this morning's fiddling is "closer to the strings" if you want more humbucker-type behaviour from your MQs, "further from the strings" takes you more towards single-coil-on-steroids territory...

In my mind, this seems to fit with how I've understood everything you've said above FF - many thanks for the help!

Cheers Andy ! -  glad you are enjoying them too. We have also found the same outcomes re : getting a 'chewy thick humbucker' sound close to the strings - and 'single coil on steroids' sounds further away from the strings.  

The interesting thing is that after I had decided that my favourite setting for the M.Qs was 1/16" ( 1.5 mm ) , I also tried the same on my Alnico IV Stormy Mondays in an S.G. Standard. I got a similar 'thickening' effect, without loss of clarity at 1.5mm. Having said that, AIV Stormys are probably the most 'E.Q. Balanced' pickup out thereafter the M.Qs.

Perhaps it is just the way I like things to sound, but it was the M.Qs that first showed me it was possible.

Thanks for letting us share your findings Andy . :D