Rage Against the Machine...

[sambo]

I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.

What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?

Of course it does no good to your cause if the way you live contradicts your message, but that's beside my point, which is that the music can be enjoyed regardless of the lyrical content.

If your music is political, then the politics comes first

Why? Maybe to YOU it does, but not necessarily for everyone else. Music is rhythm and pitch, not literature. Personally I enjoy everything about RATM, (lyrics included) but that doesn't mean I agree with every, or even any of the messages in the songs.




Will:

No, I really don't!really pisses me off. In the context of a song, it kinda shows to me that they couldn't be bothered to think of a real word to express how they feel.

Read Steven Pinker's new book. There is a whole section on how swearing evokes emotion more powerfully than words that are less offensive. :)

[Ian Price]

I must admit I often don't pay any attention to lyrics.  It took me 30 years to realise A Passage to Bangkok is a drugs song.  :oops:

Cheers Philly - I always thought it was a song about going on holiday  :roll:

[nfe]

I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.

What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?

Just to answer this point, as the others are obviously down to opinion, I meant that RATM have aways used their politics (I say "their", I mean the politics they pretend to adhere to) as a marketing tool, which it should never, ever be. If you are singing about politics you should be doing so because it's something you truly believe and feel is important enough to push. Not because it'll get angsty teens that haven't formed any political opinions of their own yet but know that their middle and upper class parents definately don't agree to buy your records.

[sambo]

I completely disagree. If you market yourself as a political band (marketing your politics being disgusting in the first place) and say from the outset that it's the message that matters, then it's probably best not to exist in complete hypocrisy to the "message" your sloganeering buffoon of a vocalist is giving out.

What do you mean by marketing politics? And if you mean advertising and promoting, then why is that disgusting?

Just to answer this point, as the others are obviously down to opinion, I meant that RATM have aways used their politics (I say "their", I mean the politics they pretend to adhere to) as a marketing tool, which it should never, ever be. If you are singing about politics you should be doing so because it's something you truly believe and feel is important enough to push. Not because it'll get angsty teens that haven't formed any political opinions of their own yet but know that their middle and upper class parents definately don't agree to buy your records.

Ah I see. Well fair point, definitely. I would think however, that they do feel strongly about the politics and message they put across. I certainly don't think they used it solely to tap into a market of angst-ridden teenagers. I think that's an extremely cynical way of looking at it. Neither of us really know their intentions though, obviously, so pointless arguing about it.

[_tom_]

I must admit I often don't pay any attention to lyrics.

haha same here kinda. I mean I know some of the lyrics but I dont really care what they mean they just fit the music and thats all they need to do for me :P

Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!

[Ian Price]

Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!

I guess it could be related to pretty much anything...............

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

[nfe]

Whilst we're on the subject of Rush - what is The Trees on about?!

I guess it could be related to pretty much anything...............

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

I'm sure I've read or seen an interview with Oeart saying that it was inspired by a cartoon?

[Philly Q]

I don't want to get into deep water by trying to analyse it too precisely, but The Trees is definitely a political allegory of sorts.

The oaks represent the rich or ruling classes, the maples represent the ordinary working folks demanding equal rights.  The lines

Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

are quite significant, because they suggest that, rather than attaining true equality and a better lot in life, the maples have simply dragged down the oaks to a "lowest common denominator" level.

I remember there was quite a fuss at the time, as the song was seen in some quarters as an attack on communism/socialism.  I think someone (the NME, perhaps?) even branded Rush "fascists".  Whatever the truth, at the time Neil Peart certainly was influenced by the writings of Ayn Rand - and I don't know enough about her to attempt to sum her up in a sentence!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

[Philly Q]

If your music is political, then the politics comes first, otherwise everyone would think Skrewdriver were an awesome oi band as opposed to nazi imbeciles.

Very good point, and almost impossible to argue with :) . 

Except it's interesting to note that extreme left wing views, whilst unpopular, are at least "acceptable", whereas extreme right wing views are so unacceptable that they're virtually unmentionable.  Despite the fact that a great many people are pretty right wing, especially on social issues.

That's just an observation.

[nfe]

If your music is political, then the politics comes first, otherwise everyone would think Skrewdriver were an awesome oi band as opposed to nazi imbeciles.

Very good point, and almost impossible to argue with :) . 

Except it's interesting to note that extreme left wing views, whilst unpopular, are at least "acceptable", whereas extreme right wing views are so unacceptable that they're virtually unmentionable.  Despite the fact that a great many people are pretty right wing, especially on social issues.

That's just an observation.

I had a lengthy reply typed. But I can sum it up as;

The left wing is right.  :lol:

[Will]

Extreme left wing and extreme right wing are however very similar in the way thay are implied, but never fully meet in the ideological sense.
anyway.... definately not worth gettting into a political debate, as I am probably outspoken on whatever matter it may well be. unless someone fancies starting a politics thread :lol:

[Philly Q]

unless someone fancies starting a politics thread :lol:

Nah. 

[38thBeatle]

They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.

[Ian Price]

They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.

That's a great idea. How about:

Let's say goodbye with a mutherfu*kin smile, dear,
Just for a while, dear, we must part, urgggh.
Don't let the parting upset you,
I'll not forget you, sweetheart.
We'll mutherfu*kin meet again, don't know where, don't know when, urgggh,
But I know we'll meet again, some mutherfu*kin sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away, urgggh.

I think it would work rather well.

[Muzzzz]

They should do some nice songs about goats and old motor cars and they'd sell more records to Grannies.Grannies are a huge untapped market and get in quick before their fuel bills go up too much. It didn't do Val Doonican any harm.

That's a great idea. How about:

Let's say goodbye with a mutherfu*kin smile, dear,
Just for a while, dear, we must part, urgggh.
Don't let the parting upset you,
I'll not forget you, sweetheart.
We'll mutherfu*kin meet again, don't know where, don't know when, urgggh,
But I know we'll meet again, some mutherfu*kin sunny day.
Keep smiling through, just like you always do,
'Til the blue skies drive the dark clouds far away, urgggh.

I think it would work rather well.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: