Public Liability Insurance

[mikeluke]

Any of the folks in the UK in bands and have Public Liability Insurance? If so, any tips where to get it from/how much etc ?

Thanks

Mike

[Sifu Ben]

 Surely the venue should be the ones with public liability insurance? Unless you're playing in sports halls etc? Ifr you need it, it's cheap - seriously £50 PA is expensive.

[38thBeatle]

We don't have it but our bass player is forever going on about it. I had heard that one or two agents were not taking on  bands unless they had it but as we don't use agents I don't know if this is true. As with other insurance, I have heard that the Musicians Union scheme is good.You won't get public liability cover along-you will only get it as part of a package I would have thought.

[38thBeatle]

Ben, the venue would need it for their own liability, it would be possible for a venue to distance themselves if, say, a member of the public were to be injured by band equipment-for example tripping over a P A cable. The thing is that an individual band memmber would be able to buy insurance(including equipment and liability) though in the event of an incident the whole band might be held responsible and those without insurance would have to pay out of their own pockets if held liable. Those with Insurance would be protected. There are policies avaiable for the band as a whole I believe.It is a topic that has arisen in my band of late.

[Sifu Ben]

 I would say that if the public are there as customers of the venue then liability falls on them (and they should have liability incurance anyway). If you view the band as a buisness then the band is liable, not individuals. You can get specific public liability policies (sports groups all have them) and like I say, they're very cheap anyway.

[38thBeatle]

I work in the industry and I handle these matters every day. In practice a claim would primarily be made against the venue I agree but if it is attributable to the band and/or their equipment then they could be held jointly responsible.I dealt with such a case last year when a speaker that had been balanced on a shelf fell and landed on someone and the band were held responsible-fortunately they were not my policyholders though I have kept the case open in case it comes back at me ( the band were insured btw). If there is no insurance then the success of a claim against the band members is doubtful of course because they may well have limited resources.There is no legal requirement for a band to have it.My band doesn't have it but, like I say, it has been a topic of conversation and the consensus is going towards getting it particularly as one or two venues have asked if we have it-maybe it is a trend I don't know. Public liability insurance is not a legal requirement (unlike Employers liability). Another reason why bands can evade claims is that band members tend to disappear into the ether when this sort of thing arises( same with tax for that matter)but with the increasing amount of litigation on balance I would say that it is a wise precaution. I shouldn't have said you can't get pure liability policies ( yes I know sports clubs can and one or two other professions for that matter but we are talking about bands) but the point I meant to make was that it is more economic to get it as part of a package to protect your own gear and the package policies such as those by the MU are hard to beat. I can get discounted rates and the MU prices were as good if not better than I could get when I last checked.

[mikeluke]

Thanks, guys - seems to be more or less the impression that we are getting - not legal requirement but places are asking for it.

Unfortunately neither of the PA speakers has fallen on the bass player.... yet!

[HTH AMPS]

Last time I was seriously gigging, we had all the band's gear insured and as part of the insurance we had public liability tied into the premium.  Cost us around £150 per year to insure all the gear and get the liability cover (inc European cover for 30 days).

[ToneMonkey]

That suprises me Mr 38th.  I'd have thought that as the gig is on the venues property the duty of care would lay with the venue and to ensure that all equipment is safe.  They'll be asking you all for method statements and risk assessments soon  :?

[Sifu Ben]

That would have been my next point. If the venue hasn't risk assessed equipment being used on it's stage then you'd think they'd have their pants pulled down in the event of such a claim. All the band would need to show is that the venue hadn't provided a suitable safe place for them to put the equipment (which without a risk assessment they'd be unable to refute) and it would be right back on them.

[38thBeatle]

Well the landlady apparently stipulated that the band had to move the speaker(s) from the shelves stating that other previous bands hadn't felt the need to  ( having brought stands with them presumably). This was witnessed  by one of the party that accompanied the "victim" but the band did not do as they were told but the landlady did not spot it. Putting it in perspective, the injured party suffered no more than a bruised shoulder (some say she was leaping about and may have knocked it off the shelf). The whole thing is fairly trivial but professionally I am going to grab whatever advantages I can and if I can deflect it I will- so far so good. The file has been dormant for just over a year which is why I was a little vague on detail but it is way too early to close the file.
Getting back to the point, I did some quick research today and it seems that my employers have come up with a newer product aimed at bands-pro and semi pro and they do a package that includes liability and gear insurance but I have to check the rates against the MU. The MU product always struck me as good value and was more competitive when I last looked.  Whilst buying PL insurance it seems to me to make sense to buy a package policy to protect the gear too.

[Jamie]

I work in a restaurant and we have a magician every sunday. He has to have public liability insurance even though our restaurant has insurance. Id imagine that if the magician actually does cut off someone in half by accident then it will go through his insurance. Its the same with bands and venues i suppose only with magic and balloon animals instead.

[Elliot]

The liability may fall primarily on the venue, but if the evidence is that the band members caused the damage/injury, the venue's insurers are likely to want to join the band in any litigation to seek an indemnity against the band.  Band members may disappear into the night, but normally the band 'leader' or agent has left his/her contact details.  Going to Court is expensive and time consuming and being unrepresented can be very foolish if decent money is at stake, so it is advisable to have insurance, especially if this insures your gear and has legal expenses insurance as part of it.

[38thBeatle]

Today we had en enquiry from a policyholder who runs a venue where bands perform. The lady wanted to know whether she would be able to make a claim under her own policy in respect of injuries she received( two broken wrists) when she fell over a speaker which had been placed on the floor after having been removed from its stand by a band member during the post gig break down of gear. She had no personal accident cover and we advised that she would not be able to claim under the liability policy as she would a) be claiming against herself and b) she had not been negligent. She was already pursuing a claim against the band though we have no idea whether or not they have any insurance.

[Roobubba]

That suprises me Mr 38th.  I'd have thought that as the gig is on the venues property the duty of care would lay with the venue and to ensure that all equipment is safe.  They'll be asking you all for method statements and risk assessments soon  :?

Ahhhhhhhhh!!!! don't!!! I've got the write more cold room local rules before October! GAH!