6 / 2 screw vintage trem

[gwEm]

other than the obvious visual differences, what are the playability/tuning differences between a 2 and 6 screw trem.

would the be any advantage to removing the 4 middle screws  to make a 6 screw trem into a 2 screw one?

[Philly Q]

I'm not a big trem user, but I believe the modern 2-point trem is meant to be more responsive and hold its tuning better than a vintage 6-screw one. 

The 2-point type usually pivots on two knife edges and those are the only points of contact with the guitar (when the trem's in use), whereas the 6-screw has 6 knife-edge contact points and the bridge baseplate stays in contact and "rolls" on the body - so there's more friction but arguably better tone/sustain.

For my two new Strats I've gone for vintage(ish) trems - a Gotoh unit like the ones Suhr use and a Wilkinson/Gotoh VSVG.  The VSVG has a neat design touch - still 6 screws, but 5 of the mounting holes are wider and oval-shaped so the bridge won't "stick" if all 6 screws aren't perfectly aligned.

Another thing I like about vintage-style bridges is that they're well suited to being blocked in place if you decide you'd rather have a hardtail after all (of course you can also block a modern trem, but it's not as neat somehow).

would the be any advantage to removing the 4 middle screws  to make a 6 screw trem into a 2 screw one?

I don't think it's recommended to remove the middle 4 screws as there'd be too much strain on the remaining two screws and the soft wood supporting them may give way (which is why 2-point trems almost always sit on machine bolts screwed into threaded bushings).   

But I have seen a trick where you set the bridge with all 6 screws then loosen the middle 4 half a turn, so they're still supporting the bridge, but not interfering with its performance so much.

[gwEm]

interesting, i thought some of those 2 point ones were screw based too.

might try that trick you mention!

thx

[Philly Q]

interesting, i thought some of those 2 point ones were screw based too.

They may be, I wouldn't like to say for sure.  There was a Gotoh model (now discontinued) which looked like it was a vintage-style trem with two screws, but I saw some pictures recently and there were actually threaded inserts hidden under the bridge.

Schaller Floyds used to come with two huge wood screws rather than bolts and inserts - I had one about 20 years ago (I'm so old :oops:).   The string tension pulled the bridge forwards so the screws ended up at an angle and the holes were oval-shaped....

Now you can even get this device - a metal plate which screws to the top of the guitar under the front of the bridge and holds the mounting studs absolutely rigid:

[gwEm]

i fitted locking tuners, and a graphtec nut... but still my (squier) 6 screw trem goes out of tune as soon as a do anything more than a light shimmer.

i wonder about graphtec saddles...

interesting anecdote about schaller floyds. my OFR stays in tune fine, but its a pain with the locking nut, and tuning the tension etc etc.

[Philly Q]

I hate Floyds, everything about them's a pain - setup, intonation, changing strings, tuning... and I don't like the feel either.

Have you taken your Squier bridge off the guitar?  If you look at the underside of the baseplate, you might find that the rounded front edge isn't very smoothly bevelled.  And/or the countersinking under the holes for the bridge screws may not be deep enough to leave sharp edges on the holes.  Or the edges of the holes may just be worn - the cheap bridges aren't made of very hard metal.

All these things add friction, unfortunately.

I'm beginning to wonder why I got trems for these new Strats...  :?

[gwEm]

as its non-floating, i set it up with quite a high spring tension, so it would hopefully return to zero consistently due to the force of it. no such luck :/

[AndyR]

But I have seen a trick where you set the bridge with all 6 screws then loosen the middle 4 half a turn, so they're still supporting the bridge, but not interfering with its performance so much.

Philly/gwem - definitely give this a go. I got it off the web - I believe it was from Fender's website, so "offical" instructions on how to set up your vintage trem.

The reasoning is that the outer screws become the fulcrum, the inner screws are just "support". Possibly bullsh1t, but it seemed to work in practice.

I tried it (along with all the other trem set-up advice in the same article, I followed it word-for-word) and mine worked like a dream - best and most stable I've ever had. I could even dive-bomb and it was still in tune (vintage trem, no locking tuners, locking nut, etc...) perfect!

However, I don't have a lot of use for a trem (other than light "Hank" stuff) but I do lots of bends where other notes are ringing and that stuff just don't work on a floating trem guitar for me - so I just readjusted it to "no play". I haven't bothered blocking or anything, no issues, my strat is "hard-tail" with an unmodified vintage trem on it. Never tried an actual hardtail strat - so I don't know how different it feels...

[Philly Q]

But I have seen a trick where you set the bridge with all 6 screws then loosen the middle 4 half a turn, so they're still supporting the bridge, but not interfering with its performance so much.

Philly/gwem - definitely give this a go. I got it off the web - I believe it was from Fender's website, so "offical" instructions on how to set up your vintage trem.

I'm hoping it won't be necessary with the VSVG, but thanks for the tip about the Fender website!  It's been a while since I've had a guitar with a trem.

In terms of the difference between a hardtail and a "locked" vintage-trem Strat, I think the tremolo springs and block contribute a particular kind of resonance (almost "reverb"!!).  The hardtail is, unsurprisingly, a bit more Tele-like, maybe with a little more sustain.  Even though a trem can be blocked, I like the simplicity of a hardtail - you don't even have to consider any set-up complications.  It saves a bit of weight too.

[gwEm]

But I have seen a trick where you set the bridge with all 6 screws then loosen the middle 4 half a turn, so they're still supporting the bridge, but not interfering with its performance so much.

Philly/gwem - definitely give this a go. I got it off the web - I believe it was from Fender's website, so "offical" instructions on how to set up your vintage trem.

thanks for the tip - i just tried it. it works quite well, not as successful as you've had it, but the best i had it so far.