I am officially FED UP with downtuning

[Lew]

Thanks for the links MDV, lots of bands to check out. The timing and rhythms of these bands are just phenomenal, I'm in total awe. I find the screaming vocals a bit annoying on some but no more annoying than the vocals on Dream Theater... it's the bands like Dragonforce that get up my nose.

[Muzzzz]

Can you imagine this argument about a piano???
"Don't use any of those notes below that E above middle C. Everything below there is horrible".
 :?
Bad guitarists make downtuning sound terrible. Good guitarists make it sound great. Settled.

[WezV]

thats true of my piano, its an upright but its not overstrung so the bass strings are shorter than ideal and really do sound like a wet fart... there is a limit to what you can do with a given string length

[temps]

The thing is ... every band i get in to it's like this

we're playing in D ... okay, fine, tune my guitar to D and lets play.. right, that's the point of having a band, yes? next week.. we're going down to C# >.<   ... WHAT?? why? it's heavier... the $%&# it is.

other band, allright, can we keep this in Eb, IF you dont want (for whatever reason) play in standard? sure, okay. no problem. week later.. say, can we go to D? *sigh* okay, at least we're playing... next time i talk to em, dude says, listen, i droped my guitar to C# the other day and it sounds amazing! WHAAA??? $%&# OFF!

okay.. couple of friends decide to make a band, i compromise and put the tuning into D for the sake of writing material and not being the only one steping out of line. yesterday the guitarist sends me a message over MSN that goes exactly like this: We're tuning to C# now.. literally told him to suck my dick and to $%&# off with the band and that i'm never going below Eb again. drop-D is acceptable and if they dont want to play in that, they should look for another guitarist.

i'm SICK of growly mushy droptuned guitars and the pinch harmonics that sounds like a cat shrieking in slow motion. $%&# that
it's the downtuning for the sake of downtuning. the material doesnt sound any better and on the same strings and same setup, you sound like a total mess. everything is drowned out by the low end

Please, for the love of god, only post stuff like this on Harmony Central from now on.

When I think of modern metal in E standard tuning, I picture power metal man-girls in tight pants shrieking about something from Lord of the Rings. Or, even worse, a cheeseball "true thrash" band like 3 Inches of Blood who want to evoke the spectre of 80s thrash.. which is difficult when they are writing some of the absolute worst songs I've ever heard. There also seems to be no shortage of lame ass 3 Inches ripoff bands in garages all over the western world, who sit up on their high horses talking about how 6 strings in E are all you need while they write some of the most boring derivative cr@p I've ever heard.

Tuning is just a tool in a guitar's arsenal like anything else. If you want to write a whole bunch of songs that sound the same and should have come out 30 years ago in the avalanche of horrible music that was the new wave of British heavy metal, have at it. Just don't make me listen to them. I write in all kinds of tunings to get the sound I want, and if I ever am in E standard, that's because there is an extra string there to give me that B every now and then..

BTW if the low end starts to overpower everything else, you turn the mids up...

so you criticize him for his opinion on downtuning... and then make the same type of idiotic post? you just made the same type of post that davey did, except you inserted your own opinion. at least he didn't tell people where he's allowed to post his opinions. good job. at least his opinion makes some sense though... do you honestly believe that you can not write a good song in standard tuning?

i completely agree that different tunings are just another tool for a guitarist to use. but if you believe that you can't write a good song in standard tuning, i have to question your skills. i know that's a dumb thing to say, but saying that only 80's hair metal bands can use standard tuning... well that's just ignorant.

its really all a matter of opinion. you can't say a certain tuning is bad, that doesn't make sense.

please, for the love of god, don't post that type of stuff anywhere anymore. there's really no point. express you're opinion, don't tear down someone else's.

I was making assumptions since he doesn't seem to understand the point of detuning, or how to get a good tone when doing so.. if he can't write a good song in D standard, how is E standard magically going to make him better? Therefore, I assume he plays cr@p metal like 3IOB. :?

It definitely wasn't the same kind of post.. no mention of dicks or the sucking thereof.

And I said tuning was a tool just like any other - providing a case for standard or Eb. Protest the Hero's new album ruled and its a half step down.

[MDV]

Thanks for the links MDV, lots of bands to check out. The timing and rhythms of these bands are just phenomenal, I'm in total awe. I find the screaming vocals a bit annoying on some but no more annoying than the vocals on Dream Theater... it's the bands like Dragonforce that get up my nose.

:D

The force is strong with this one!

Johnny and Temps speak the truth. Dowtuning = usefull.

"If you cant do it in E you cant do it" actually means "I have no idea why people detune", which of course doesnt in the least mean that its not a worthwhile thing to do.

Heres a starter for 10: it enhances the guitars ability to behave as a percussive instrument in music, that as Lew observes, is intensly and complexly rhythmic.

[Philosoful]

Can you imagine this argument about a piano???
"Don't use any of those notes below that E above middle C. Everything below there is horrible".
 :?
Bad guitarists make downtuning sound terrible. Good guitarists make it sound great. Settled.

 :lol: Spot on, I can't believe the arguing in this thread. If someone wants to play in F and it makes them happy what more reason do they need? It makes things harder to sound clear but that hardly disregards EQ - I have seen Nile and Meshuggah live and utterly adore both of them, Nile = A, Meshuggah = F and on one of their albums E BUT where these 2 bands inparticular have sorted their sound out, I hear every note, both bands are crystal clear live.

"If you cant do it in E you cant do it" I think that's pretty stupid, so bands like Nile should take away half of what they are because they can't play it in E?

'A'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--------------------------------------------
'E'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--------------------------------------------
'A'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-

So not being able to play that at 250bpm (that's 8ths then 16ths on the end, there's a strange palm mute-release pattern to that I haven't bothered writing in) = a justification that they shouldn't play it? That is a moronic reason I think.

[TomAwesome]

Wow, there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

Tuning low doesn't necessarily make the guitar sound like cr@p. If you're using inappropriate strings or bad equipment or just don't know how to use the equipment properly, then yeah, but it's entirely possible to get a heavily detuned guitar to sound good. I tune to drop Ab and Eb below that (yes, an octave and a half step below standard), and I don't have any problems with it. Meshuggah's tone is massive. Stephen Carpenter tunes lower on every album, and his tone is as clear as it is huge.

Tuning lower isn't necessarily compensation for lack of skill. Yeah, there are far too many kids who just drop their guitars down to C or so and start threading lame breakdowns together. Don't make the mistake of thinking everyone who detunes is like that. Also, if you set up the guitar properly and use the right strings, playing on a detuned guitar shouldn't be any easier or harder than playing on one in standard. On the other side of that, standard tuning doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be playing '80s metal. Yeah, they tend to stay pretty close to standard, but they're not the only ones. Not only do I like tuning low, but I like playing in standard, too. Hell, a lot of the time I play with a capo on a standard tuned guitar. I don't play hair metal.

To reiterate some stuff that has already been said, detuning just offers a different kind of sound. I couldn't imagine some genres sounding right in standard tuning. It's entirely possible to write good and heavy music in standard, and any good musician should be able to, but there's nothing wrong with detuning to achieve a different sound. To borrow from another post, it's like saying that a piano with more than X number of octaves of range is stupid. You can find plenty of examples of whatever generalizations you may want to make, and I'm fairly likely to also dislike those examples, but seeing examples of people who detune for the wrong reasons and can't do it right and assuming that the same is true of everyone who tunes below D is silly.

[MDV]

Can you imagine this argument about a piano???
"Don't use any of those notes below that E above middle C. Everything below there is horrible".
 :?
Bad guitarists make downtuning sound terrible. Good guitarists make it sound great. Settled.

 :lol: Spot on, I can't believe the arguing in this thread. If someone wants to play in F and it makes them happy what more reason do they need? It makes things harder to sound clear but that hardly disregards EQ - I have seen Nile and Meshuggah live and utterly adore both of them, Nile = A, Meshuggah = F and on one of their albums E BUT where these 2 bands inparticular have sorted their sound out, I hear every note, both bands are crystal clear live.

"If you cant do it in E you cant do it" I think that's pretty stupid, so bands like Nile should take away half of what they are because they can't play it in E?

'A'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--------------------------------------------
'E'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--------------------------------------------
'A'-6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--6--7--3--4--2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-

So not being able to play that at 250bpm (that's 8ths then 16ths on the end, there's a strange palm mute-release pattern to that I haven't bothered writing in) = a justification that they shouldn't play it? That is a moronic reason I think.

Ah, but you can play that in drop D, thats low enough :lol:

[TomAwesome]

Hell, you could tune the other strings up and play in drop E!

[HTH AMPS]

Meshuggah especially have a very clear tone that doesn't even seem that distorted by modern metal standards.

The clips that Roo posted the other week of his new baritone Wez-V show how good downtuned guitars can sounds while retaining as much clarity as an E-standard tuned guitar.

The whole argument is rediculous - next we'll be saying that JCM800s are the only amps we can use for metal because Slayer played some of the most brutal metal ever recorded with them, therefore everyone else should be able to.

[Roobubba]

Tuning up is for pussies.

:D

PS cheers HTH! :)

[Philosoful]

Tuning up is for pussies.

:D

PS cheers HTH! :)

Call me a pussy then, well, not uptuning, just adding the 8th string soon mwahaha.

[TomAwesome]

Call me a pussy then, well, not uptuning, just adding the 8th string soon mwahaha.

Nice. I plan to get an 8-string next year, and when I either get that or a 7-string with a baritone scale, I'm going to tune one of my current 7s to have an extra high string instead of an extra low string. Actually, I already have a 7 set up like that, but it's in C standard with an extra high F, so I'm not sure how much that counts.

[Philosoful]

Rusty Cooley said one of his students done that on a baritone 7 and the string kept snapping. That's why my 8 has fanned frets, or is going to once it's made...

[Davey]

wow, some of you really took this the wrong way 'round and THEN got your panties in a twist. also, some of you cant read.

is downtuning ridiculous? yes, to some extent
would everything sound as good or better if it was tuned D and above? no, i dont think so. no i dont think meshuggah would sound good.would bad horsie sound good in standard? doubt it. i dont think amon amarth could get their huge viking sound going if tuned in E, but does that mean everyone should do it aswell? NO!

i argue the point of downtuning, because it's the big thing in recent years. because everyone does it, you should do it aswell. NOT to write music that would fit the sound you got going with the guitar tuned to A, because that would mean you actually think about the music as a concept and make it work for you, but because it sounds more br00talz! and therefore better. while the riffs stay the same and would sound MUCH more focused and driven in Drop-D
ALSO, while writing the first post, i was furious, because it ment buying new strings and setting up the guitar properly, to have a crisp sound thus not sounding like a wet fart, all the time knowing the others will just downtune to C# using 9's. THAT is what pisses me off and THAT is while i loathe these kids of today thinking they're the next Zakk Wylde, who is biblicly overrated as it is (which is an agruement all by itself)