Satch sues Coldplay!!!

[Philly Q]

Like you say, Satch probably won't win (though I'd like him to - I'm a fan), but I'm just hoping his record company lawyers are acting for him so he doesn't get too screwed by lawyers' fees.

The lawyers' fees go with the territory if he's determined to see this through.  I shouldn't think he's that badly off anyway. 

I wouldn't like him to win the case if they haven't actually plagiarised his piece.  Mind you, they probably deserve it for being middle class  :roll: .  The filthy b@stards. 

[Johnny Mac]

Like you say, Satch probably won't win (though I'd like him to - I'm a fan), but I'm just hoping his record company lawyers are acting for him so he doesn't get too screwed by lawyers' fees.

The lawyers' fees go with the territory if he's determined to see this through.  I shouldn't think he's that badly off anyway. 

I wouldn't like him to win the case if they haven't actually plagiarised his piece.  Mind you, they probably deserve it for being middle class  :roll: .  The filthy b@stards. 

They should hang if thats the case!  :lol:

[hunter]

Hmm, I dare say it, but I really like Coldplay. I think they are a great band and have that "thing" so that they can play even the most minimalist song and it still sounds great. A bit like U2 where I see a live video and I am looking for samples or hidden synths but cannot hear any, and it sounds SO FAT, unbelieveable.

Re the plagiarism, well, they should be straight about it. If they've done it, they should admit and pay. Otherwise, I mean, what's the harm. Probably more people buy the old Satriani album now due to this, so he has had his benefit anyways.

[sambo]

I reckon it is a rip off. They sound almost identical. When trying to write something the possibilitys are almost endless, limited only by what works musically, the writers imagination and limitations. Where did Chris Martin start the writing process of this song? The rhythm? The Chords? The melody? The riff? The lyrics? Then what did he do? The choice of paths for where this would have turned out are huge. For it all to sound like Satch's song suggests this is plagiarism.
There's no reason to suggest he doesn't listen to satch. Most folk who like Coldplay would never had heard of Satch so its safe that his fans wouldn't discover it.

What about them sounds almost identical though? It's three notes (C#, D, B) of a melody, and a ridiculously generic chord progression. That's it!

That comparison vid, by the way: the creator said he changed the tempo and keys as they didn't even fit originally.


 

[Elliot]

I don't know what the problem is - I mean Jimmy Page made his entire reputation out stealing other people's guitar parts  :D

[AndyR]

Not a big Satch fan...

And I'm definitely not a Coldplay fan... but I'm sat next to one at the moment (Mrs Andyr says hi)...

We followed the youtube link and... we both think Coldplay'll get done, or they'll settle out of court...

I personally don't think any established artist nowadays would deliberately plagiarise - they'd be absolutely stupid to do so, it's just not worth the effort of recording and marketing the thing. But it is so easy to come up with something that you think's original, especially when it's catchy, and then someone turns round and goes "hey, it's just like so-and-so..." which is not what you intended at all, but you know you've heard "so-and-so", though you don't listen to it regularly, and on reflection you do seem to be subconsciously quoting it... so you end up binning the new song. I suspect that's what's happened here but no-one in the Coldplay camp spotted it.

I feel for both sides - when I read this yesterday, not able to listen to it (or know either tune), I thought "Satch is being daft", but having heard it, I know exactly how he must have felt when he heard it - he had to do something (maybe he did, and Coldplay's publishers/etc said "f*ck off" and that's why it's gone this far!!).

I also feel for Coldplay. Unless they nicked it deliberately (which I doubt) they'll be feeling a bit hard done by. But assuming they're creative people who are used to writing songs - they'll know it's possible to accidentally plagiarise.

All in all, I think both sides will seek an agreement of some sort. Unless either camp is feeling bloody-minded I reckon they'll probably cut a deal to get it done as quickly/quietly as possible.

:D

[AndyR]

I don't know what the problem is - I mean Jimmy Page made his entire reputation out stealing other people's guitar parts  :D

I was thinking Led Zeppelin when I was writing mine :lol: (that's what I meant by "deliberately plagiarise")
I feel it's more the songs themselves in LZ's case though - nowadays Howlin Wolf etc are all credited on the albums, but they weren't in days gone by. Even in the late 70s early 80s when I first bought copies of them they were credited to Page/Plant. Having said that - the Wolf didn't write half of them either, he was quoting someone else!!

[Elliot]

The real Plaige shockers are the ripping off of Jansch on Blackmountainside and Davey Graham on White Summer.   

[dave_mc]

I reckon it is a rip off. They sound almost identical. When trying to write something the possibilitys are almost endless, limited only by what works musically, the writers imagination and limitations. Where did Chris Martin start the writing process of this song? The rhythm? The Chords? The melody? The riff? The lyrics? Then what did he do? The choice of paths for where this would have turned out are huge. For it all to sound like Satch's song suggests this is plagiarism.
There's no reason to suggest he doesn't listen to satch. Most folk who like Coldplay would never had heard of Satch so its safe that his fans wouldn't discover it.

+1

the fact the satch version sounds more like satch while the coldplay version sounds more like coldplay is no defence, if it's the same song, just changed slightly. if you copy someone's homework, you don't hand it in in their handwriting, after all.

i have no idea if coldplay did *intentionally* rip off satriani (not that that matters overly, if i unintentionally write the day of the jackal, i shouldn't get to keep the profits, though i probably shouldn't be sued for punitive damages), but it's not beyond the realms of possibility...

What about them sounds almost identical though? It's three notes (C#, D, B) of a melody, and a ridiculously generic chord progression. That's it!

the main hook (i.e. the whole point of the song) is identical. that's pretty big if you ask me. neither song would work (or at least be anywhere near as good) without that main hook.

if i stole the first four notes of beethoven's fifth symphony would you say the same? ;)

I don't know what the problem is - I mean Jimmy Page made his entire reputation out stealing other people's guitar parts  :D

haha, didn't he get sued too?

someone on another site said that jp didn't sue someone else when they nicked his stuff... i thought it was a bit ironic to mention jp... :D

[sambo]

if it's the same song, just changed slightly.

This is where we differ Dave- imo it's nowhere near the same song.

the main hook (i.e. the whole point of the song) is identical.

The problem with that is that the "point of the song" is completely subjective. And even if everyone COULD agree on what the 'point' of a song was, I'm not sure how that makes a difference to a plagiarism case. And more importantly, why should an artist be able to effectively own a 3 note melody on the grounds that it's his or her hook?

[dave_mc]

i disagree that it's only 3 notes, that's the problem. if you ask me, the entire melody of the chorus (of satch's song) is the same (or as near as makes no difference). and the entire coldplay song is more or less based on that chorus. :)

i'm aware that satch might not win, but imo he deserves to (whether or not he should get millions, i don't know, especially if they unconsciously copied it)...

[_tom_]

Apparently this was written and released before Satch released his song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57CgtX-BsI

sounds like he has some explaining to do :lol: If its true that they did release that song before him and he's blatantly copied it, then I have lost any respect I had for him - trying to sue someone for a song he himself ripped off :lol:

[sambo]

disagree that it's only 3 notes, that's the problem. if you ask me, the entire melody of the chorus (of satch's song) is the same (or as near as makes no difference)

Well... agh! :lol:


Tom that just proves to me how incredibly generic that phrase is. There's probably another 20 songs on indie labels with the same melody.

[Philly Q]

Apparently this was written and released before Satch released his song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57CgtX-BsI

Oh Joe, just give it up!  :lol:

Tom that just proves to me how incredibly generic that phrase is. There's probably another 20 songs on indie labels with the same melody.

It is a really simple little melody, isn't it?  I just figured it out in about 10 seconds, and you know what a fvcking shite player I am.

[broken cord]

 Then again, he is American.

 Ahem... aahem! Treading murky waters here.  Let us not generalize.


Satch has a point! However, I think it is enough just to let CP know he knows.