Blu Ray player

[Denim n Leather]

No sound upscaling, as such, unless you have something that can decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Sound ... but the digital output might be much better than your old DVD player ...

Thats certainly true on DVD's on BluRays the player will output the Core DD or DTS track used as the basis of the HD Audio stream these almost without fail are at the full bitrate supported by DD and DTS which you rarely get on DVD's due to space limitations.

I'm not doubting that you've read or heard this somewhere, but do you have a source to back this up? It sounds like hype to me. I would like to read about this, as I've never heard of any "down res" DD or DTS bitrates ... in all cases that I've read about and seen, it is the video that is compressed and made to suffer when it comes to storage space, not the audio bit stream, as it takes up as much space as is necessary, either DPL II, DD, DTS, DD EX or DTS ES. This is why many DVDs only have one discrete digital soundtrack. Politics (and Lucas' "benevolent despotic" support of only DD, even tho DTS [and SDDS for that matter] is the proven superior sound format) is also a major factor. I've attended many seminars on the subject and am a member of the Digital Audio sub-commitee for SMPTE.

While technically speaking there is some "play" in the bitrate on a 'standard' DD soundtrack on a Blu-ray disc (either DD or DPL II), when a movie's soundtrack is created, it is a VERY RARE that it will be mixed down at multiple bitrates. I'm unaware of any hanky-panky being done to 'upscale' the bitrate after the fact, however.

Then, of course, is the question of whether you can even hear the piddling difference between 500 and 600 kbits/sec through your audio system. That is another issue entirely.

Any and all reference you have for this statement, especially if it's an official SMPTE release, would be appreciated!

[phlip]

 :( :( :(

Bloody Hell calm down mate.
I may have worded that badly, you NEVER get full bit rate DD(640kbs)  or DTS(1.5mbs) on DVD as they can't support it
The Author can choose what bitrate to encode their soundtrack at for DD and DTS within the standard.

I never said DVD's or Blurays had tracks mixed at multiple bitrates. I also never mentioned upscaling the tracks either.
The HD Audio on Blurays contains the Max bitrate DD and or DTS AND the extra data to make this into the lossless versions if lossless audio is included.
"According to DTS-HD White Paper, the DTS-HD Master Audio contains 2 data streams, the original DTS core stream and the additional "residual" stream, which contains the "difference" between the original signal and the lossy compression DTS core stream."

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In the home, Dolby Digital 5.1 normally operates at either 384kbps or 448kbps (Dolby Digital's maximum bitrate on DVD-Video), but can operate at bitrates as low as 224kbps as used on some IMAX DVDs, or as high as 640kbps. More recently Lion's Gate used 256kbps Dolby Digital 5.1 for its Cube Signature Edition
From here http://www.spannerworks.net/reference/10_1a.asp

Yes it's rare but thats just to show the Author can choose to use a bitrate of their choice within the spec's

Lets not argue this belongs on AVforums..

While we're on evidence where has it been published that DTS is superior? That would be gold for the next DD v DTS argument. everythign I've read has came up with the answer it's subjective (I do prefer DTS tho :D :Dugh!)

[Denim n Leather]

I wasn't arguing (and am not still), I was actually genuinely asking, as there might've been something released that I missed.

[juansolo]

To my fairly f**ked ears, in real terms the difference between HD audio and DTS is minimal. Dolby Digital does sound a bit flat in comparison to the HD standards however, as it does in comparison with DTS. But that's about it. It's certainly nothing to woo yeah about or indeed, spend too much time arguing the toss about.

[blue]

soundtrack wise, on both Blu-ray and HD-DVD, i generally felt that the lossless audio sounded good, but not a vast amount better than a good Dts track.  recently though, i've heard a couple of soundtracks which have changed my mind.  Ratatouille has a PCM soundtrack, and it sounds astounding, you really can tell the difference. my girlfriend reckoned it was all in my head, so immediately after i put on the dvd of Finding Nemo, with it's standard Dolby Digital track, and we were both amazed by how flat and lifeless it seemed straight after the lossless audio. of course, not every soundtrack is going to be a big improvement, just as some titles really don't look much, if any, better than dvd. but the potential is there for really jaw dropping audio quality.

seemingly Pioneer are planning to launch a new music only format using Blu-ray's lossless audio, basically a successor to dvd-audio and sacd.  hopefully this time it'll take off, although i still wish someone would make a blu-ray player that would play all my hi-res audio discs.

[Doctor X]

The problem I've experienced with DTS it is that it is just too much for my home!  For example, watching Gladiator on standard DVD, the DTS soundtrack makes the room shake and is pretty much unwatchable if I'm going to have the slightest regard for the neighbours.  The Dolby soundtrack on the other hand does the job sufficiently and I don't have to worry about the ceiling/floor collapsing.  I live in a flat though, if I had a detached house it would be DTS all the way.

I've bought the Sony BDPS350 and a 40" Sony Bravia LCD recently and it's great!  The BD picture quality on Baraka is fantastic.  I can't say I've noticed much difference in the audio quality though.

[Will]

Anybody got any setup advice to do basic calibration then? I'm just looking for quick advice while being cheap, if not then I guess I will have to buy WALL-E :lol:

I am interested in the pro calibration thing too, but I think that shall wait a bit

[Denim n Leather]

Video or audio calibration?

[juansolo]

Digital Video Essentials

For sound a sound meter and a tape measure (never been able to get a decent set up out of the inbuilt auto calibration things).

[Will]

Video or audio calibration?

Video - I'm thinking of just investing in one of those sets ^ but I don't like spending money

[juansolo]

Video or audio calibration?

Video - I'm thinking of just investing in one of those sets ^ but I don't like spending money

To be honest it seems a lot for something you'll only use every time you swap out your telly. But it does get it set right and unless you buy a Pioneer plasma, most sets are miles away from where they should be out of the box. A Panasonic I set up recently was also pretty close to be fair. Most use 'shop' settings with massively ramped contrast because they seem to think it'll make them stand out in shops (I'm looking at you Sony). Another trick is to soften the image so that poor sources look better as again in shops, they usually have one cr@ppy feed distributed to all the sets. The problem with that is that you lose detail. It goes on.

Once you get your head around the 3 test cards you need to use for a basic setup (pluge for white balance/black level, the colour card that you use with the swatches to get that close and the sharpness test card) you can get a set pretty damned close to reference in about 10 mins. If you're anal and your telly allows it you can do the individual colours, but that can take bloody ages.

The thing is, if you're watching HD material and you want it presented optimally, it is worth £12 and half an hour of your time. The single only downside is that low res and poor quality sources will be torn apart by a good quality well set up monitor. It's the price you pay I'm afraid.

[Denim n Leather]

I still recommend Avia for non-professionals over DVE, for various reasons.

But juansolo has it mostly correct.

B U T .... You can never get black and white balance correct until your display is properly calibrated to be putting out 6500 degrees Kelvin at both 80 and 30 IRE.

The reason for this is that most displays are pushing one colour more than the other two (out of red, green and blue) in order to make their set stand out, just as juansolo pointed out above.

Without starting from that "zero point", you can never have a truly well-tuned display.

But yes, if all you are interested is in the basics, you can get a good chunk of the way there in a short period of time.

NOTE: Always let your display warm up for 30 min or so before doing any adjustments, as the power supply needs to stabilize.