Petition against the introduction of sound control devices to live venues (UK)

[gwEm]

I signed it. There was a time, in the early days of these devices, that we used to take extra long mains cables and would run out gear from a socket that is not governed and play happily whilst the unit flashed away. I don't know if you can still do it though-I guess it depends on the installation. We recently had a gig booked where the venue had a governor and the venue was switched to one where there was none. I played a gig once where the power was being cut before we started playing-due to the cumulative volume of voices. The gig was a disaster and the punters very unhappy-not with us I'd hasten to add.

i've played gigs with limiters too, if they cut the sound completely then it sucks - completely destroys the show. fully agree with your comments.

[maverickf1jockey]

If they are cutting power that would be particularly harmful to the electronics concerned as well.

Not worth the expense for the venue.

I'd be very tempted to hit them with legal action if they buggered my equipment by jogging the mains feed on purpose, which is what these seem to be doing.

[hamfist]

It's not a bad idea in theory....in practise it's ridiculous.

Sound pressure levels are notoriously difficult to measure accurately and repeatably. It's not like speed, which is clearcut. Not only, that human perception of sound varies from person to person.

Some sounds can have high SPL's without being either harmful or dangerous, and vice versa.

Anyone who's ever gigged with some muppet stood in front of the band with a sound level meter, or with sound level limiters will know how hard it is to never exceed any given limit.

The other flaw with the idea is that the levels picked tend to be Occupational maximum exposure limits. However, there's a huge difference between being in a factory with continuous background machinery noise at 100dB for 8 hours a day, and music with transients (like cymbals) at 100dB for a couple of hours.

It's a typical example of moronic beurocracy not being able to think outside of  simple rules, and also of the extent to which the nanny state now sees fit to interfere with our lives. Laws like this should be opposed as a matter of principle, otherwise pretty soon you won't be able to take a shitee without wearing gloves and a respirator.
Music's too loud? Leave, stand elsewhere or wear plugs. Bar staff? Wear earplugs if you choose to, it's a free country.......or was...

Martin, you have hit the nail squarely on the head with your comments.

.......although I will be seriously considering your suggestions of a respirator and gloves.

[Elliot]

Most local authorities (especially in London) have required them as part of their licensing policy for 3 years now - So petition is 3 years  too late as noise limiters are ubiquitous and the power to require them is in the hands of local government, not central government.

[MDV]

It's not a bad idea in theory....in practise it's ridiculous.

Sound pressure levels are notoriously difficult to measure accurately and repeatably. It's not like speed, which is clearcut. Not only, that human perception of sound varies from person to person.

Some sounds can have high SPL's without being either harmful or dangerous, and vice versa.

Anyone who's ever gigged with some muppet stood in front of the band with a sound level meter, or with sound level limiters will know how hard it is to never exceed any given limit.

The other flaw with the idea is that the levels picked tend to be Occupational maximum exposure limits. However, there's a huge difference between being in a factory with continuous background machinery noise at 100dB for 8 hours a day, and music with transients (like cymbals) at 100dB for a couple of hours.

It's a typical example of moronic beurocracy not being able to think outside of  simple rules, and also of the extent to which the nanny state now sees fit to interfere with our lives. Laws like this should be opposed as a matter of principle, otherwise pretty soon you won't be able to take a shitee without wearing gloves and a respirator.
Music's too loud? Leave, stand elsewhere or wear plugs. Bar staff? Wear earplugs if you choose to, it's a free country.......or was...

Damn fine post

I've come full circle on this one. Time to kick around my head, I suppose. Its silly, and nanny state-ish. I'll take care of my own ears, same as my lungs, liver, arteries and heart (or not as the case may be, and by may be, I mean is). They're mine, I know how to look after them, and I can choose not to if I wish.

[martinw]

Thankyou Alan!  :)

Note that I'm not in favour of overly loud gigs.
I've been to many gigs where the bands been too loud, both in pubs (guitar has 4x12 and a Mesa, bass has 8x10, all drums miced up etc) and large venues (Airbourne at the Academy, where the sound engineer should have been shot).
And in fact, as has been said, larger venues should have the technology and the already have the compulsion under existing legislation to keep levels fairly cool, and still deliver great sound. Journey at Manchester Apollo was a good example; perfect with no earplugs in, loud but crystal clear.

No, it's pub and small club gigs that will suffer :(

[Ratrod]

Ever noticed how loud brass instruments are?

I never heard old farts and govt. idiots complain about that.

[MDV]

Ever noticed how loud brass instruments are?

I never heard old farts and govt. idiots complain about that.

Orchestras are pretty bloody loud on the whole, and thats never gonna be touched!

This whole thing reeks of cantankerous whining curtain twitching gits complaining about the "Bloody noise", so categorised purely because they dont like the music, and not understanding that they live near a venue/club/pub and its going to be a noisy place as a result.

[Oli]

Ever noticed how loud brass instruments are?

I never heard old farts and govt. idiots complain about that.

That's because their hearing is really damaged already! Orchestral musicians, specifically the brass section, get really bad hearing due to having a loud instrument right by their ear. The systems that are installed in clubs, are set at a level, and if that is exceeded for a certain amount of time (ie 3mins), then it will cut out. The dynamics of classical music are such that a sustained high spl level is not there.

[Ratrod]

Many of you will have heard of the Brian Setzer Orchestra.

Brian needs two Bassman amps and a monitor just to get himself heard on stage.

[tomjackson]

Why don't venues just hand out disposable earplugs and have a few signs on the wall saying:-

Warning, Loud music may damage your hearing, Protect your ears
ear protection abailable at the door

Trouble is there will always be sound monitoring / cutting because idiots decide to buy flats next to venues and then complain about the noise.  Then the meddling council communists spoil the fun :(

Has anybody seen It's All Gone Pete Tong, BTW?
That's an interesting film about a DJ that goes deaf.

[Will]

Why don't venues just hand out disposable earplugs and have a few signs on the wall saying:-

Warning, Loud music may damage your hearing, Protect your ears
ear protection abailable at the door

Trouble is there will always be sound monitoring / cutting because idiots decide to buy flats next to venues and then complain about the noise.  Then the meddling council communists spoil the fun :(

Has anybody seen It's All Gone Pete Tong, BTW?
That's an interesting film about a DJ that goes deaf.

Have you heard about the island of Lundy? they have two signs on the whole island, and no H&S bollocks.

One of my mates went to, errrm, somewhere in Europe following Pearl Jam, and this country had the free earplug thing. Belgium, Luxembourg, Sweden, Switzerland are the places that it could have been

[andymac]

I found this similarish petition:

After the petition against sound metering at venues, here’s another. This time the government are requesting personal data from musicians via a form (696) that has to be completed by the venue. This data will include names, private addresses and telephone contact details of all musicians. Apparently, this is being used to monitor bands that cause problems, but I guess may also be used for tax reasons!

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Scr@pthe696/

Andy

[Roobubba]

The correct link for that petition is:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Scr@pthe696/sign

I've also signed it, thanks for the heads up! :)

Roo

[Bird]

I've been wearing ear plugs to concerts for the past few years. Works great.