Baritone Pickups

[FernandoDuarte]

:lol:
Roo, prepare your soul, you're going to like a Tele... ;)

[Pauldem]

Hi Pauldem,

Really liked the video, some good writing and playing there, which is always of primary interest. I also really liked the fact that the top bulbous horn of your tele was kept mostly invisible in the video - thank God for that!
There was just one problem for me in that video: at 2:50, you lift up the axe and the top horn is visible - now, to put the next statement into perspective, I'll first have to outline why I hate telecasters:
I hate the top bulbous horn. It looks wrong, teletubby meets guitar. I also hate teletubbies, so you can see why this would be an issue.
I hate the stupid bridge with ugly metal backplate. Most 'metal' teles have done away with this, and that's to their credit.
I hate the metal strip behind the control knobs. Again, most 'metal' teles don't suffer from this hideous addition.
I hate the small headstock. It makes it look as though the guitar is in fact invented for shoving into people's arseholes. Never mind, eh.
Most of all, I have yet to see a telecaster player who looks cool with the guitar. In every single picture/video I have seen, bar none, the telecaster makes the player look like a c***muncher. It's not the player, necessarily, the vast majority are very good guitarists, and likely very nice people (as I'm convinced you are from your posts here, besides you obviously have at least some semblance of good taste, because you're on the BKP forums, right? :D). It's the guitar at fault, and it's a sad fact of life. :(
So, back to my previous statement, unfortunately, at 2:50 in the video, you have been afflicted, at the hands of the guitar, I might add, by the same problem faced by tele players the world over. It's a shame, because otherwise it's an excellent vid (and I really did enjoy it, thanks for sharing!!), and I reiterate again, good playing and good song-writing!!
Nothing personal, you understand :)
Of course, no-one else loses out by my dislike of teles, in fact, neither do I because I'm a 1-guitar man and I have the perfect guitar for me (see avatar, WezV custom baritone).

So, anyway back on topic, I think articulation is the absolute key for baritones. It's important to have an increased scale length (and I think everyone should own a multiscale instrument, too!) for the better string tension, and in this case you do need lower output pickups to cope with the increased mass of strings vibrating in the magnetic field. For your kind of music, clarity and articulation is definitely key for those fast low riffs, and I think that you'll struggle to maintain that with a high output humbucker like those in the contemporary range. As has already been said by Wez above, you can probably get away with a bit more than the black dog, but the extra gain coming from pedals/amp does give you more tonal flexibility in any case, so if it were me, I'd go for something like the black dog, or VHII.  Have you asked Tim at BKP, yet? Give him a call, he's very helpful! :)

Like the others say, it's all part of the banter, and I can take a joke as well as I can give them out (better, because my jokes are rubbish...). Don't take my tele-hating ways to heart, although I'm afraid they won't change. I hate telecasters about as much as I hate the Beatles...

:D

Roo

Hey Roo,

Well I'm glad I didn't post our cover of Helter Skelter :mrgreen:. This is the joy of forums for me, a common subject bringing together such a wide variety of opinions. Guitar is the perfect joy in my life and if I couldn't be outrageously biased in certain respects, well life'd be boring.

The guitars I detest look like this:

These guitars for me, are just the epitome of hideous and can normally be found adorning hateful bands like Franz Ferdinand. This is of course my opinion, but I can't be offering up apologies as I hate all bands of that ilk with matching kitsche guitars. Now if one of these bands had a tele, I could see myself disliking it intently. The problem is when I see Root or Kotzen I can't help loving the things and I also think they provide some good upper fret access :D.

I had a listen to the 13 Gauge toons and they've pretty much confirmed that Baritone is the noise I want moving forward. I especially liked Darklight, great bass noise as well. What Amps are you using for these recordings?

I've dropped Tim a line so hopefully I'll have a few more ideas when he comes back to me. Thanks again for all the advice and along with more Tele's, some more abuse would be fine 8)

Cheers

Paul

[MDV]

Hi Pauldem,

Really liked the video, some good writing and playing there, which is always of primary interest. I also really liked the fact that the top bulbous horn of your tele was kept mostly invisible in the video - thank God for that!
There was just one problem for me in that video: at 2:50, you lift up the axe and the top horn is visible - now, to put the next statement into perspective, I'll first have to outline why I hate telecasters:
I hate the top bulbous horn. It looks wrong, teletubby meets guitar. I also hate teletubbies, so you can see why this would be an issue.
I hate the stupid bridge with ugly metal backplate. Most 'metal' teles have done away with this, and that's to their credit.
I hate the metal strip behind the control knobs. Again, most 'metal' teles don't suffer from this hideous addition.
I hate the small headstock. It makes it look as though the guitar is in fact invented for shoving into people's arseholes. Never mind, eh.
Most of all, I have yet to see a telecaster player who looks cool with the guitar. In every single picture/video I have seen, bar none, the telecaster makes the player look like a c***muncher. It's not the player, necessarily, the vast majority are very good guitarists, and likely very nice people (as I'm convinced you are from your posts here, besides you obviously have at least some semblance of good taste, because you're on the BKP forums, right? :D). It's the guitar at fault, and it's a sad fact of life. :(
So, back to my previous statement, unfortunately, at 2:50 in the video, you have been afflicted, at the hands of the guitar, I might add, by the same problem faced by tele players the world over. It's a shame, because otherwise it's an excellent vid (and I really did enjoy it, thanks for sharing!!), and I reiterate again, good playing and good song-writing!!
Nothing personal, you understand :)
Of course, no-one else loses out by my dislike of teles, in fact, neither do I because I'm a 1-guitar man and I have the perfect guitar for me (see avatar, WezV custom baritone).

So, anyway back on topic, I think articulation is the absolute key for baritones. It's important to have an increased scale length (and I think everyone should own a multiscale instrument, too!) for the better string tension, and in this case you do need lower output pickups to cope with the increased mass of strings vibrating in the magnetic field. For your kind of music, clarity and articulation is definitely key for those fast low riffs, and I think that you'll struggle to maintain that with a high output humbucker like those in the contemporary range. As has already been said by Wez above, you can probably get away with a bit more than the black dog, but the extra gain coming from pedals/amp does give you more tonal flexibility in any case, so if it were me, I'd go for something like the black dog, or VHII.  Have you asked Tim at BKP, yet? Give him a call, he's very helpful! :)

Like the others say, it's all part of the banter, and I can take a joke as well as I can give them out (better, because my jokes are rubbish...). Don't take my tele-hating ways to heart, although I'm afraid they won't change. I hate telecasters about as much as I hate the Beatles...

:D

Roo

Hey Roo,

Well I'm glad I didn't post our cover of Helter Skelter :mrgreen:. This is the joy of forums for me, a common subject bringing together such a wide variety of opinions. Guitar is the perfect joy in my life and if I couldn't be outrageously biased in certain respects, well life'd be boring.

The guitars I detest look like this:

These guitars for me, are just the epitome of hideous and can normally be found adorning hateful bands like Franz Ferdinand. This is of course my opinion, but I can't be offering up apologies as I hate all bands of that ilk with matching kitsche guitars. Now if one of these bands had a tele, I could see myself disliking it intently. The problem is when I see Root or Kotzen I can't help loving the things and I also think they provide some good upper fret access :D.

I had a listen to the 13 Gauge toons and they've pretty much confirmed that Baritone is the noise I want moving forward. I especially liked Darklight, great bass noise as well. What Amps are you using for these recordings?

I've dropped Tim a line so hopefully I'll have a few more ideas when he comes back to me. Thanks again for all the advice and along with more Tele's, some more abuse would be fine 8)

Cheers

Paul

Christ they're repulsive

I agree completely.

However, theres PLENTY of hate to go around, and teles also deserve as much as as you can give them (though I think Roo has enough hate for telecasters to make even seasoned tele-haters such as myself superfluous to requirements!).

Rickenbackers too. By christ they're ugly.

And burns. Shockingly horrible.

[Roobubba]

LOL MDV, cheers! :)

Pauldem - completely agree with you! Variety is the spice of life (and I also agree about 'hateful bands like Franz Ferdinand' - very well put!).
You're right, those guitars are truly hideous (and indeed I'll admit that your tele in that vid is nicer than any of those guitars - this is praise indeed ;)).

For what it's worth, those recordings weren't done with the new guitar, but a down-tuned ibanez (13-65 strings), with a miracle man. Because it's 25.5" scale length, the note definition is quite poor, but the sound tech who did those recordings with us was very good at capturing the best sounds and minimising the worst!
Since those recordings, I now have the lovely WezV Baritone and have also changed the speakers in the setup.
Those recordings were done with:
Ibanez RG -> Zoom 2.1u multi-effects -> Peavey 5150-II (ISP decimator ProRackG in the effects loop) -> Peavey 5150 4x12 cab (with Peavey Sheffield speakers)

Now the setup is:
WezV Baritone -> Peavey 5150-II (ISP decimator ProRackG in the effects loop) -> Peavey 5150 4x12 cab (with 2x EVM12L black label, 2x Celestion G12K-100) + Marshall 2x15" + 2 x8" bass speaker cab
I'm on the waiting list for a Bodenhamer Bloody murder (which I can't wait for!!!), and that should complete the setup, tighten up the front end a touch and give some more drive into the amp, too.
I'm much happier with the sound of the new setup, but haven't had a chance to record it yet (oh, and we have a new vocalist since losing the last one a year ago to knitting and poetry (aka protecting his vocal chords...)).

Hopefully we'll have some time in a recording studio before too long - we're just revamping the tracks with the new vocalist at the mo!

:drink:

Roo

[Philly Q]

These guitars for me, are just the epitome of hideous and can normally be found adorning hateful bands like Franz Ferdinand. This is of course my opinion, but I can't be offering up apologies as I hate all bands of that ilk with matching kitsche guitars. Now if one of these bands had a tele, I could see myself disliking it intently. The problem is when I see Root or Kotzen I can't help loving the things and I also think they provide some good upper fret access :D.

Hmmm.  I really, really don't want to do this  :( .   But.....

[Pauldem]

Christ they're repulsive

I agree completely.

However, theres PLENTY of hate to go around, and teles also deserve as much as as you can give them (though I think Roo has enough hate for telecasters to make even seasoned tele-haters such as myself superfluous to requirements!).

Rickenbackers too. By christ they're ugly.

And burns. Shockingly horrible.

Amen to the above good sir, horrid things that should thrown to the wastes.

Cheers for the kit breakdown Roo sounds like you have the perfect metal rig. I think Michael Amott has a similar vibe, though he may use the Rocktron hush in place of the decimator. Looking forward to hearing the WezV as well, looks like a sweet axe from the pics I've seen. Just more metal now i guess 8)

Oh and PhillyQ ....Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Pauldem]

These guitars for me, are just the epitome of hideous and can normally be found adorning hateful bands like Franz Ferdinand. This is of course my opinion, but I can't be offering up apologies as I hate all bands of that ilk with matching kitsche guitars. Now if one of these bands had a tele, I could see myself disliking it intently. The problem is when I see Root or Kotzen I can't help loving the things and I also think they provide some good upper fret access :D.

Hmmm.  I really, really don't want to do this  :( .   But.....

This image is both shocking and heart breaking although I do believe that telecaster was stolen from The Feeling :D

[WezV]

i have to say, that red hagstrom is gorgeous, spangly finish, lots of chrome, pearloid fretboard... beautiful!!!

 the italia copy is awfull though

I quite like the tele!!  I like the 70's ones with big strat headstocks - although me prefering bigger headstocks is in no way related to Roo's comment about where they should be shoved :P  Franz were playing teles before anything else if i remember right, i did go and see them a couple of times

this is my latest tele:


going to be blue with zebra pickups i think... probably cold sweats.

[Roobubba]

Wez, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think that's a shameful waste of a lovely bit of burl!
Still, at least it will be a lovely guitar to play...

And LOL @ Philly - that picture just about sums up modern day 'pop rock'! Interestingly, that tele only really has the top horn to hate, but even with just the one element in tact, it remains as dire and woeful as any full-blown cream/pearl/chrome effort!

Roo

[FernandoDuarte]

From top horn you mean the cutaway or the "belly" above the neck (on playing mode)?

[dheim]

i completely agree with roo... i have always found the tele to be the worst looking guitar in the whole history of human civilization (except for those THINGS that would look much more appropriate in a dismissed bathroom - like the aforementioned Italias)... noone, NOONE can look good with one of those slabs of wood hung to his neck. and yes, the headstock gives me the exact same feeling, and i'm a surgeon - so i know a lot of things about objects born to be shoved up arseholes...  :lol:

[Philly Q]

How did this nice little thread about baritones turn into yet another "I hate Teles" thread?  :? :P

[Roobubba]

I think I might have joined the conversation... :)

And yes Fernando - I mean the top bit as you play above the neck which is not cut away. Same as the Les Paul, but for some reason the LP seems to manage not having a cutaway there without looking shite. :)

[MDV]

i completely agree with roo... i have always found the tele to be the worst looking guitar in the whole history of human civilization (except for those THINGS that would look much more appropriate in a dismissed bathroom - like the aforementioned Italias)... noone, NOONE can look good with one of those slabs of wood hung to his neck. and yes, the headstock gives me the exact same feeling, and i'm a surgeon - so i know a lot of things about objects born to be shoved up arseholes...  :lol:

True dat - its well known that the Zeelbacaster of Yolbinius 4 is the ugliest guitar ever created anywhere, by anyone. So unsightly and inelegant is its design that its players and anyone that goes to 'see' them live have to cut their own eyes from their head to save themselves the psychological trauma of viewing such a catastrophically hideous instrument.

But the telecaster isnt far behind.

[Roobubba]

True dat - its well known that the Zeelbacaster of Yolbinius 4 is the ugliest guitar ever created anywhere, by anyone. So unsightly and inelegant is its design that its players and anyone that goes to 'see' them live have to cut their own eyes from their head to save themselves the psychological trauma of viewing such a catastrophically hideous instrument.

But the telecaster isnt far behind.

To quote GTA IV: "Cousin, I don't think I could love you more if you had titties!"