THAT IS NOT FAIR!

[FELINEGUITARS]

Some of the issues described here about Gibsons may well be why we get asked to make so many of our Lions

I kind of feel that often when a company puts out a high price flagship model with a HUGE pricetag it serves several purposes

it gets us all talking about them
it creates a stupid amount of desire amongst some players
it stirs up the collectors market who buy them in a hope of an investment

and the funniest thing of all - they fly off the shelves - people sell stuff and beg , borrow or steal to get the must have item.

[martinw]

So that makes it ok to charge over the odds?  :lol: 

That's one limited edition model mate, not the upper end of their standard range!!  :lol:

So? That makes it not a rip-off? Double standards alert! Need more examples? How about the upgrade costs for 10 tops etc? Or £40 for a strap? £20 for a pot?The Private Stock prices? Bombarding the market with any possible model, then replacing it with another slightly different one after a year or two? Paisley amps at silly prices?

It's called exploiting brand loyalty, and PRS will do it as much as anyone else, if not more.

I'm not being defensive either; it's not about Gibson, I fully agree with the anything anybody says about them.
They do make some good guitars, but I've no axe to grind... they need to pull their fingers out.

They're all the same....

[38thBeatle]

I can't leave you boys for 5 minutes can I. Nice Les Paul btw but I'll let it pass. I would love to have one perhaps one day but I couldn't/wouldn't pay that for any guitar let alone that one.  Anyway, seconds out...round whatever it is.....

[ToneMonkey]

There are no rounds, this is old school bare knuckle last man standing rules

[Simon D]

That LP is gorgeous, but £8k is more than I'd pay for any guitar, I think.

[Philly Q]

There are no rounds, this is old school bare knuckle last man standing rules

 :lol: :lol:

So that makes it ok to charge over the odds?  :lol: 

That's one limited edition model mate, not the upper end of their standard range!!  :lol:

So? That makes it not a rip-off? Double standards alert! Need more examples? How about the upgrade costs for 10 tops etc? Or £40 for a strap? £20 for a pot?The Private Stock prices? Bombarding the market with any possible model, then replacing it with another slightly different one after a year or two? Paisley amps at silly prices?

It's called exploiting brand loyalty, and PRS will do it as much as anyone else, if not more.

Yeah, they're doing a lot of that recently.  Slightly tweaked versions of older models which disappear after about 5 minutes (Aside:  have they really discontinued all the CE models, or just forgotten to put them on the website?  :o ).

And that is, in fact, very Gibson-esque.   Can't tell you how many times Gibson have brought out a model and just when I'm thinking of buying one, they vanish off the face of the earth.  It'll happen with the ES-339 next.  :( 

[HTH AMPS]

theres a time when that guitar would have been termed 'shop soiled' and had cash knocked off - relic?, pah!!!  :lol:

[Ian Price]

I tried one of the roadworn fenders on saturday (the 50s tele) - it was a seriously nice guitar. SERIOUSLY nice, I couldn't stop talking about it when we went for coffee. It's the first time I've wished my missus could play, just so that she could feel how good it was...

But £799? It was not worth it to me at the moment...

Guitarvillage have the 50s roadworn tele up for £699. I rekcon they would let it go for about £60 less than that if you asked them nicely!

[dave_mc]

come on gibson, that's worth $50k easy...

and the funniest thing of all - they fly off the shelves - people sell stuff and beg , borrow or steal to get the must have item.

yeah, definitely. when prices rise, it's meant to make demand fall. unfortunately, what also often happens (it happened with houses too) is that it makes the products more desirable (would anyone want a rolex if it cost £50?) and people feel that if they don't get in now, they'll never be able to afford it (e.g. the houses).

:(

[Twinfan]

So? That makes it not a rip-off? Double standards alert! Need more examples? How about the upgrade costs for 10 tops etc? Or £40 for a strap? £20 for a pot?The Private Stock prices? Bombarding the market with any possible model, then replacing it with another slightly different one after a year or two? Paisley amps at silly prices?

10 top is not a £1000 upcharge, which it is on a Gibson R9 vs an R8.  It's about £350 I think.  Still too expensive I agree, but not as bad as Gibson.

Gibson Studios, Faded Studios, Studio Plus, Studio Premium Plus, Studio Mahogany, Studio Gem etc etc.  I again agree that PRS and Gibson do it.

But Gibson do it worse  ;)

I think the current model range from PRS has gone too far in the Gibson way - a lack of focus.  And yes Philly, they have discontinued the CE range.

[Johnny Mac]

come on gibson, that's worth $50k easy...

and the funniest thing of all - they fly off the shelves - people sell stuff and beg , borrow or steal to get the must have item.

yeah, definitely. when prices rise, it's meant to make demand fall. unfortunately, what also often happens (it happened with houses too) is that it makes the products more desirable (would anyone want a rolex if it cost £50?) and people feel that if they don't get in now, they'll never be able to afford it (e.g. the houses).

:(

Couldn't agree more, high price = better in the logic of some folks whether it is justifiable or not.

Look how the cosmetics industry exploit this. 100 quid for some emulsified oil in a fancy pot, print a load of bollocks on the label and you have a queue of mugs biting the hand off Harvey Nichols sales staff for it.

Clothes...the fashion industry have obscene prices and more pretentious nonsence than any other, but they still pay the asking price. Look at the brand loyalty there.

So what do you do?

Go custom!  :lol:

[martinw]

But Gibson do it worse  ;)

So you admit that PRS do it?  :lol: They rip you off in a high quality way that makes you feel good!

Anyway, I give up now; you win. :sigh:
PRS are a non-profit charitable foundation, dedicated to bringing music to the world. Paul shuns the dollar, refusing to turn his passion into a business, and build guitars himself in a small workshop, and sells them at cost-plus-minimum-wage to customers he knows by name.

You can make up my next post using the following words and phrases:
Borg; dystopia; creationist; blinkered; zealot; new messiah; sturmabteilung; BMW X5; U-turn; absolutely will not stop.
 :P

[Twinfan]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Martin.  You've missed my original point by a mile!  I'm not trying to say PRS don't overcharge, because for certain things they do.  The point I was trying to make is this:

PRS mainstream model = Custom 22 = £1700 for basic spec

Very good build quality, and pretty consistent from guitar to guitar.  Some are better than others, or suit one player better than another, but most people would be happy to buy one sight unseen via mail order.

Gibson mainstream model = Les Paul traditional = £1600

Variable build quality, and weights vary a lot from guitar to guitar therefore producing bigger tonal differences and playing experiences.  I'd be unwilling to buy one sight unseen via mail order.

PRS high end model = Modern Eagle II = £4500

Key differences from mainstream model to justify extra cost are:
* highly figured maple (always better than 'normal')
* nitro finish
* 57/08 pickups
* solid rosewood neck
* bird inlays
* fancy case
* gold hardware (OK, mixed but some parts are gold)

Gibson high end model = Les Paul '59 reissue = £3800

Key differences from mainstream model to justify extra cost are:
* flame top (not always better than a 'regular' guitar)
* longer neck tenon
* Burstbucker pickups
* vintage appointments (thinner rhythm/treble ring etc)
* different case
* PLEK setup


Do you see what I'm getting at?  What you actually get 'extra' for your £2000 or so is actually not that much on a Gibson, and things like the pickups/plastics you can change yourself for a lot less money if that's what you want.  The things you get on a PRS cannot be 'upgraded' that easily - maple, rosewood neck, bird inlays etc.

[Johnny Mac]

Did you know that Mr Smith is an endorsee of my Koch?  :lol: Well not mine exactly but Dolph's.

[WezV]

Paul's a nice fella too