PK and NB enigmas

[dheim]

i wouldn't call it dry, not at all. i feared it could be too bright, but the story is all about high mids, so it's not harsh, and it nicely balanced by mid and low mids, so it sounds very "full". not round as a holydiver or warm as a warpig, but definitely not thin. one thing you should consider is that the S is a very middy guitar, and so the PK exhalts its tonal features...
the nailbomb has got a more open and rich voice, that works better for leads or solos, but the PK beats it for rhythm work. artificial harmonics ring everywhere at the slightest touch, and this is another great thing!
i feared it could be a sort of one trick pony, but it isn't, and it sounds great for lead work too, anyway.

and yes, it's more aggressive than the NB... that is still my first choice for progressive tones. straighter kinds of metal need a PK, other could have said this before, and they were right!

[Dr. Vic]

Thanks for the input !

I was "focused"  PDT_023 on something particulary dry or bright in the PK voicing compared to the rest of the BKP range because I read that it has "a permament snarl that is not for everyone", and because of that kind of review, which sum up quite well (I think) what was the experience of peoples who had a dislike with the PK :

Well, I will give you my "personal" thoughts...

I also play melodic death metal, and I've tried the Nailbombs (alnico set), Miracle man (set) and also the Painkiller bridge...

For my personal tastes, the PK didnt work at all... was too trebly with many highs - middle/highs... I had a bad time on stage when I change guitars from one with the MM to the PK... the sound changed a lot, and I had to start tweaking the amp on the fly... (bad moment).

But you guys here didn't seem to have that same bad experience...Pretty interesting !


 

[MDV]

in response to your PM, Vic - I said MM because those bands sounds would be best achieved with a MM. Dream theatre has MM all over it, as does Ozzy, and mid-career, darker-toned megadeth is eminently achievable with a MM. Its the smooth, lots of high end, lots of low mids, slightly dark in the high mids, bright, sharp treble thing its got going on.

Doesnt roll back very well though (unlike all the other BKs) and its cleans are passable, but not great (unlike all other BKs).

[dheim]

uhm... the "permanent snarl" is definitely there. it happens also with the warpig, only a bit more on the left side of the spectrum (the WP, of course!)... this is what makes them sound so aggressive and i don't point it as a negative feature...
i heard a PK - NB comparison clip in which the PK sounded very thin in comparison... and i must say that this very thing kept me away from the PK unless i decided to BKPize every guitar of mine... playing it i hadn't this impression, not at all.

[Dr. Vic]

Now I've got it ! Thank you guys.  PDT_003

In fact as I remember you, MDV, and Darth hellstyle (!) both saying on this forum that ''NB = modern mustaine tone'', I guess this had confused me as I applied the second and now famous BKP forum rule  :lol::

miracle man

The truth Darth Hellstyle speaks. The Miracle Man you must have.

when MDV and I about something agree, an unquestionable truth that shall be  :lol:

:lol: New forum rule :lol:

But it seem obvious to me now the MM is more close to the sound I want to nail. So yes I am definetely looking for that MM voicing with his low mid push AND darker tone

BUT THAT SAID cleans are also important to me AND I cannot allow me to kill the versality of my guitar, which is really versatile (maybe it's its first quality), with such a pup. And MM seems clearly to lack the versatily of the rest of the BKP range... :(

So here I am....on a never ending circle, looking for those qualities in one pup  :lol: :
1/ the voicing of the MM with maybe a little less compressed and more organic tone
2/ the bite / agressivity of the PK without it's high mid focus / snarl voicing
3/ the warmth / thickness of the HD without it's too much rounded tone and with more tightness
4/ the versality of the NB without it's too « refined voicing » as dheim said, or this I-dunnot-know-how-to-define-and-what-disturb-me. This pup is still a mystery to me. Maybe looking for a more raw (like ROOAARR !) overall agressive tone ! 

A sort of compromise to find I suppose....But more considering a MM or a HD at the moment.  Anyway unless you say I am wrong, I suppose I have to stay on ceramic, for great tightness + the in-your-faceness I am interrested in. (Nolly sent me a video showing the tightness of the NB would not be a problem for me though, see it but I guess it is already done, it is just  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: www.brokebands.com. ) 

So which one will complete more easily this equation ?
MM voicing + NB versality = ?

Did anyone experiment a C-HD ? Is it a bad idea to consider it, if it does exist ?
will a DSP PK be more close to the MM voicing ?
Any other ideas ?  :idea:

[MDV]

Yeah, optimally for the modern megadeth. Doesnt mean the MM cant do it, and the NB isnt as good for the other stuff you said

[dheim]

...warpig?

[Dr. Vic]

...warpig?

Way too beefy for me and not sure about it's voicing...too much for me.

Yeah, optimally for the modern megadeth. Doesnt mean the MM cant do it, and the NB isnt as good for the other stuff you said

Hummm. I see Thanks for that precision. And what alternative choice for that MM voicing + NB versality
C-HD?, DSP PK ?


Thanks guys !

[dheim]

things are getting a bit complicated... after 3 pages memory starts to fail... have you already asked tim?

i think i'll give you the same suggestion i gave yesterday after the 4 pages of another similar thread... you have few possibilities to get a pickup that's completely wrong for your tonal needs... on the other hand it's very probable that any BKP you'll try will give you a GOOD sound.

[Zaned]

Ceramic Nailbomb?

-Zaned

[HairyChris]

Cold Sweat?

Very rounded, got a reasonable bite, and is definitely aggressive if you dig in. Very versatile. Not voiced like the MM, though.

I find the MM to be pretty dry, great for surgical riffage and taming Mesa Rectifiers but not massively fat (it's not thin, just not as massive sounding as the CS), and the clean isn't good.

[ericsabbath]

I'll say it again:
wood matters.

a lot.

[ericsabbath]

Cold Sweat?

Very rounded, got a reasonable bite, and is definitely aggressive if you dig in. Very versatile. Not voiced like the MM, though.

I find the MM to be pretty dry, great for surgical riffage and taming Mesa Rectifiers but not massively fat (it's not thin, just not as massive sounding as the CS), and the clean isn't good.

not true
the cold sweat was a direct replacement the miracle man I had
the miracle man sounds more massive and it isn't that much more dry
the cold sweat has just a fair amount of mids (not an extra ton of mids) and has definitely less bass and low mids
the clean is better, but I'd say like 30% tops

[Dr. Vic]

I had a look at those ones...
What Tim told me about the CS is that it is bright in the highs, tight in the bass with very smooth mids.
(And that the CS is lower in output and will not cut through the upper mids as well as a PK). He also described the C-NB as in between the PK and the CS, with more bottom end and more low mid than the CS. BUT he said the C-NB will be brighter than a PK (and a CS brighter than a C-NB). And as I thought the PK would already be too bright for me, then maybe these ones are not for me...

And I had in mind that the NB would be kind of a warmer-less-tight-more-versatile alternative to the PK...But now I am more interested in a more darker voice I think. Thanks to you guys who pointed also at the MM and the HD ! now choosing between 4 pickups instead of 2 :lol:....

So is there any other option for a MM voiced pickup (with a low mids push) BUT more versatile :?:

I thought I read somewhere here (but I may be wrong) that the stock HD model used to be available first with a ceramic magnet. Can someone confirm that ? And did someone experiment that ? Can this be an option ?

[dheim]

not entirely on topic.

i don't like to talk on second-hand knowledge (as i think i've steted before i've never played yet a MM), so i can't tell you if MMs and HDs can be compared in some way... i like my HDs, but i don't LOVE them. not yet, at least, and i could tell you the same thing for the CS... on the other hand with WP, NB, PK, MQ, PiG90 i fell instantly in love.
I began to like more my CS after i played them with my valve amp (they didn't such an impression on my POD), while for the HD the story is quite the opposite... i just used them with the band and they disappeared, completely suffocated by the overly bright sound of the other guitarist... i noticed the same contrast with other pickups (the guy is always annoyingly trebly), but somehow they managed to emerge anyway. HDs didn't, but maybe it was just because my performance was quite awful...
the only thing i can say is that HDs not only didn't come though the wall of screeching highs of the other guitar, but they failed to overpower it in the bottom end... usually all i need to show who's the boss is to do some palm muting and feel the air moving... HDs were curiously weak in this department, despite their otherwise dark sound.
a mistery.