Modellers

[Oli]

For me, the biggest problem with modellers, is that you lose all feeling from the amp- you just can't compare the feeling you get from a real amp pushing a real cab- even though the sounds are getting better, there's something fundamental that you're missing with a modeller (imo).

And to agree with MDV, a lot of the fun in recording is working out how to get the best sound from what you've got, and experimenting with different mic/cab/room positions.

[MDV]

I tried to try revalver but my DAWs wouldnt let me.

Besides, done with it. Modellers includes VSTs.

[AndyR]

:lol:

Considering what I've just been posting elsewhere about being a Luddite over guitars, I feel a bit odd having to query this bit:

"And to agree with MDV, a lot of the fun in recording is working out how to get the best sound from what you've got, and experimenting with different mic/cab/room positions"

That's not what I find at all - I hate dicking about to get the tone (even on a modellor), I want to get a sound that's at least 90-95% there and then I can concentrate on getting the performance down. I'll take any tool that makes the "get me a sound" bit of the process easier :lol:

It's all about the performance for me when I'm recording, I kinda reason that you never get to hear your full guitar sound in a mix anyway. And anyway, the biggest problem tone- and feel- wise, as far as I'm concerned, is that I'm using a drum machine not a real drummer, the fact the guitar tones are fake as well seems a lot less noticable to me :lol:

I know there's a difference, and I suspect there always will be to some extent, but it's not worth the hassle for me, I'm still using my favourite modellor, as recommended by... er... (now who was it? :lol:). It's got some "issues", I can hear them too, can't put a finger on them, but I can live with them...

[MDV]

Its not one or the other between performance and sound ;) (fwiw the tonelab is still my favourite, but that doesnt mean I think the results it gives are are nearly good as an amp ragging a speaker with decent mic/s infront of it, and FWIW pt2 I plan to try to use it for modular effects and wah later with my PB and see how it sounds, because its effects are very good (and its models might be better driving speakers and mics than DI too, we'll see))

[_tom_]

That's not what I find at all - I hate dicking about to get the tone (even on a modellor), I want to get a sound that's at least 90-95% there and then I can concentrate on getting the performance down. I'll take any tool that makes the "get me a sound" bit of the process easier :lol:

I agree, this is why I use my modeller probably more than a mic and an amp. So much easier to get a half decent tone.

[CaptainDesslock]

That's not what I find at all - I hate dicking about to get the tone (even on a modellor), I want to get a sound that's at least 90-95% there and then I can concentrate on getting the performance down. I'll take any tool that makes the "get me a sound" bit of the process easier :lol:

I agree, this is why I use my modeller probably more than a mic and an amp. So much easier to get a half decent tone.

Totally true, if your just working part time and playing in your garage its SOO much more convenient than having to buy all your pedals separately and hope for the best

[MDV]

That's not what I find at all - I hate dicking about to get the tone (even on a modellor), I want to get a sound that's at least 90-95% there and then I can concentrate on getting the performance down. I'll take any tool that makes the "get me a sound" bit of the process easier :lol:

I agree, this is why I use my modeller probably more than a mic and an amp. So much easier to get a half decent tone.

Totally true, if your just working part time and playing in your garage its SOO much more convenient than having to buy all your pedals separately and hope for the best

Depends on your sonic priorities. I use very very few effects (in 11 years of playing I've just bought my first delay pedal).  I want tones, and modellers havent delivered. Some are better than others, no doubt, but every time I've taken the time to mic up an amp its paid off tenfold over modellers.

Frankly for effects, I dunno how its gonna work out, but I plan to use DAWs built in stuff during my next recordings. Then you arent stuck with whatever settings you dialled in to begin with.

[Jonny]

I got my Toneport simply cause my mum wouldn't let me have such a huge amp (head + cab) in the house plus I had my AD30VT on me and as parents always say "One is enough" or "You have one already why do you need/want another one?"

And so I'm selling my AD30VT and have got the Pittbull (which is still at home! ARGH!)

I'm sort of stuck with the Toneport for now but I would definately go for an amp/cab anyday. I like tweaking and being hands on rather than 'mouse on' or what not.

Plus for the cosmetic side of everything, a Pittbull head on a MJW 2x12 cab looks cooler than a UX1 :P

[hunter]

I don't wanna convert anyone, just bring across what I am going through at the moment. I've been more into amps than guitars in the past, and I was always hunting (yeah it's my name) for that great tone. Actually the list of amps I owned in my >20 years playing is quite long:

Hughes & Kettner ATS Combo
Mesa Caliber 50+
Peavey 5150 (first series)
Rivera Knucklehead 100
Soldano Atomic 16
Engl Screamer
THD Univalve
Bogner Shiva
Orange TT
Diezel Einstein
VHT Pitbull 50/ST
Marshall Vintage Modern
Budda Superdrive 30

Each of them was great, but none of them had more than ONE GREAT sound. They might be channel switchers, but in the end all the amps seem to have one highlight tone, and then some mediocre ones.

Now I have the Axe, played it through the Bogner, a Carvin poweramp and now the VHT2502.
With the Axe FX I feel I have a base where I can tweak far more and don't need new amps to have new sounds. I can go through a guitar rig, or I can go direct, which is giving even more flexibility, as direct you have bigger influence on the sound (let's say the VHT Poweramp and Bogner 4x12 give everything their own flavour).

Who knows, I might be going back to amps, but right now after a few months with the Axe (oh almost 1 year) I still feel I haven't scratched the surface yet. I will be getting a quality coax active monitor (FBT Verve 12MA) next week, and who knows, maybe this will be the way to go - have my own controlled stage monitor which gives me wide spread coverage on stage and for FOH go direct with full control on amps, FX and cabs all at the switch of one button on my controller.

Especially live, you won't get more than a fraction of your amp's sound (unless you're Joe Bonamassa and they take real good care of you), and I believe direct will give me better results than I used to have with my mic'ed rigs in the past (plus I will hear myself better as my sound on stage is not concentrated on 3 square meters in front of the 4x12). Will be playing some festival shows this summer, where I'll be tought right or wrong. Let's see.   

[gwEm]

still very keen on sansamp gear this end... its great for the convenience, and I love the attack.. but indeed, something real valves do best!

[dheim]

i agree with you on the simple, basic fact that real amps sound "truer" than devices designed to emulate them. for obvious metaphisic reasons. You can't find a real pizza outside Naples, just more or less good imitations... so the best emulation for a valve amp driving a cab is a valve amp driving a cab. monsieur de lapalisse would have agreed.

and i agree with you on the subjective satisfactory feeling that just a real amp can give you when you succeed to obtain a tone you really like. YOUR tone. by tweaking a sound that's it, without too many options to reshape it.

i don't completely agree with you on the assumption that a real amp sounds necessairly better than a digital emulation... many bands (messhuggah or cynic anyone?) prefer digital devices for their tone... PODs sound certainly different from tube amps, and someone may prefer those synthetic sounds... it's something similar to the concept of synth music. you can prefer the sound of synth strings to the one of a real string quartet for some arrangement...

and, for recording, i believe that tweaking, EQing and make every possible dirty trick to make a POD or something better (i mean the Axe-FX... i don't like any VST modeler i tried, never tried the Tonelab though) sound as you want is not less satisfactory than finding the right sound positioning a mic in the oesophagus of a dead iguana or something like that... it's exactly like saying that Photoshop is cr@p by definition, and that real photos have to be taken on film and modified in a dark room... Photoshop can't make an idiot look like a photographer, and emulation can't give you a good sound unless you're good at creating it...
of course if you're able to tranlate on "tape" the real sound of your amp, well, you don't need any modeler.
i usually record at night, so for me is simply impossible!

[Nadz1lla]

If I was loaded then for sure, I'd buy each amp I wanted that gave me a specific kind of sound, but for sheer convenience and range of tones, Modellers all the way until I win the lottery.  :lol: