2112

[AndyR]

And you misspelled Ayn Rand ...

:lol:

I've read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (my favourite - it was actually a life changing experience for me reading that one).

Can't remember Fountainhead, but I certainly didn't pick up on any "right wing preaching at me" at all in Atlas Shrugged - it seemed to me that the biggest message is: "be yourself, stay true to that, be proud of what you do and what you add, don't expect a free lunch (there might be one, but it's not yours as-of-right), and do not ever take the credit for someone else's effort..."

...but ever since I first read it, people have been saying Ayn Rand was a right wing commie-hater or similar to me... if that makes me right-wing too... oh well! (Can I borrow your over-my-head smiley Wez? :lol:)  I can say that I tried some of her essays about art once, I could see what she was getting at, but she was boring as hell!! So I don't know too much else about her apart from the fact the Atlas Shrugged was a ripping yarn and it changed me big time.

I imagine something very similar happened to Mr Peart and he was able to take what it did to him, add some of himself and then express it in his own way...

And, though I might be wrong, I really don't think he'll be in the least embarrassed about it, nfe :lol: - I suspect he'll be too proud of having created something and achieved roughly what he set out to do at the time, hopefully he's politely humble about it, but he should be proud, it's a fine piece of imagination (btw - I hated 2112 as pretentious screechy b*llshite when it came out :lol:... kinda like it now in my old age...)

[Antag]

It sounds like you know nothing about Peart, his ideals or philosophies, nor the circumstances that surrounded the concept of 2112 ...  Read one of his books before casting aspersions his way! And you misspelled Ayn Rand ...

+1

...I certainly didn't pick up on any "right wing preaching at me" at all in Atlas Shrugged - it seemed to me that the biggest message is: "be yourself, stay true to that, be proud of what you do and what you add, don't expect a free lunch (there might be one, but it's not yours as-of-right), and do not ever take the credit for someone else's effort..."

...but ever since I first read it, people have been saying Ayn Rand was a right wing commie-hater or similar to me... if that makes me right-wing too... oh well! (Can I borrow your over-my-head smiley Wez? :lol:)

+1

& why is it OK for morons like Rage Against the Machine to idolise a murdering savage like Che Guevara because he's "left" wing, but it's not OK to be "right wing"?  Talk about hypocrisy :roll:

[AndyR]

We're getting dangerously close to "politics" here :lol:

Let's try to get it back to 2112 (bear with me :))

For me personally, I think it's OK for anyone to express an opinion - this even includes hate-filled opinions, in my book, I'm afraid.

It's up to each one of us to decide whether we want to listen to that opinion, agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it, express another opinion about it, act on it, fight it, endorse it, wotever...

Funnily enough, that's also one of the things I got from Atlas Shrugged :roll: (I suspect Mr Peart did as well)

Personally, I am highly suspicious of any idealogy (religious, political, social). Most of them, at heart, seem to require a "leap of faith" that cannot be proved, understood, or explained clearly. And this leap of faith must be made, at the behest of someone else who often seems to want some sort of power over you, in order to accept the idealogy and endorse it. For me, there seem to be a whole lot of widely accepted concepts that appear to ask us to deny what we are: individuals with our abilities to think and to choose.

But that's just where my journey has taken me - once I say it out loud or write it, it's just an opinion like anyone else's. And I, possibly to my own (self?) destruction, would defend others who want to express a different one :)

Re-(skim)-reading the 2112 stuff, old Peartie's lyrics seem to have captured that as well. They still come across as a bit pretentious on paper for my liking - but they sound quite emotional when you listen to the album, they appeal to all sorts of primal stuff in me, and like others have said, they tell a good story that gets you thinking...

[Antag]

You're right.  Sorry, got out on the wrong side this morning... :)

Interesting stuff about the concept/lyrics.  I've always been mesmerised by the guitar playing (in particular, the Discovery section) & the flow of the song...

[AndyR]

Yeah, I missed that bit out - the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all. I don't usually follow the lyrical "concept" on a concept album/piece too closely, because I know you have to bend things to fit them in, and they won't always bear too much inspection. But the music and lyrics do support each other well, and musically it's a concept as well.

I've got to be in the right mood because I find it a quite "bright" and aggressive sounding album to listen to, but I can certainly hear now why some of my contempories back at school were completely taken up with it.

For me it's right up there with Suppers Ready! (another one I hated when I was young, but adore now :))

[Ian Price]

We're getting dangerously close to "politics" here :lol:

+1. It was only a simple (well simpleish) question  :o

Let's try to get it back to 2112 (bear with me :))

For me personally, I think it's OK for anyone to express an opinion - this even includes hate-filled opinions, in my book, I'm afraid.

It's up to each one of us to decide whether we want to listen to that opinion, agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it, express another opinion about it, act on it, fight it, endorse it, wotever...

and +1 on that. Was watching Deja Vu last night. David Crosby said that good art should prompt a reaction whether you agree with it or not - be it a good or bad reaction it still prompts one. 2112 definitely does that in my book!

On the same film there was also some ultra conservative woman commenting that "CSNY have no right to use the stage to express their political beliefs to a large audience of people and that musicians shouldn;t be allowed to use their position of power to get their message across". Outrageous!

[Ian Price]

the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all.

Another raging endorsement from me on that! Not sure about Tears but the rest of the album is top quality. Pearts drumming is immense - I'd never really listened to drummers before him. His best performance IMO is on Natural Science.

[Denim n Leather]

the thing I like most about 2112 is the music, the "whole package", vocals, guitars, drums and all.

Another raging endorsement from me on that! Not sure about Tears but the rest of the album is top quality. Pearts drumming is immense - I'd never really listened to drummers before him. His best performance IMO is on Natural Science.

Check out Hold Your Fire if you want what is some of the most technical (yet musical) drumming ever recorded!

[nfe]

& why is it OK for morons like Rage Against the Machine to idolise a murdering savage like Che Guevara because he's "left" wing, but it's not OK to be "right wing"?  Talk about hypocrisy :roll:

It isn't, and you'll find I've slated RATM for their immensely uneducated, juvenile politics on this very forum before. But generally, it's ok to be left wing because it finds it's basis in a hope for equality for all people, whilst it's not ok to be right wing because it finds it's basis in superiority for a minority.

I love Rush incidentally, love them to bits, but I'm also a bit too politically aware to just disregard some things.

OH, and I spelt Ann Rand right, it's her that spells it wrong.  :lol:

[Philly Q]

Just going back to the original question, I always thought it was some other, unknown, alien race who "assumed control" at the end. 

So the Priests have won, our hero has killed himself.... but then a force bigger and more powerful than the Priests turns up to kick them into touch!  So it ends on a (possibly) positive note....


(Disclaimer: That's just my impression, I've never read up on the background or what Peart may have intended)

[_tom_]

where is the 'over my head' smiley?

+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:

[Denim n Leather]

Just going back to the original question, I always thought it was some other, unknown, alien race who "assumed control" at the end. 

So the Priests have won, our hero has killed himself.... but then a force bigger and more powerful than the Priests turns up to kick them into touch!  So it ends on a (possibly) positive note....


(Disclaimer: That's just my impression, I've never read up on the background or what Peart may have intended)

That is the strangest interpretation of 2112 I have ever heard!

[Denim n Leather]

where is the 'over my head' smiley?

+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:

I feel very sorry for you, then. You're missing out.

[Ian Price]

+1 haha, I've never bothered to read into any lyrics, they're all a load of bollocks to me :lol:

I feel very sorry for you, then. You're missing out.
[/quote]

I had a similar conversation with my partner a while ago. I was talking about the lyrics on a song (I think it was by Dylan, can't remember the song though) and she told me she never listens to the lyrics as it "wasn't that important". I must say that I was a little annoyed about that statement and got in a bit of a huff!

[nfe]

I had a similar conversation with my partner a while ago. I was talking about the lyrics on a song (I think it was by Dylan, can't remember the song though) and she told me she never listens to the lyrics as it "wasn't that important". I must say that I was a little annoyed about that statement and got in a bit of a huff!

With folk music it's the most important thing by a million miles! I can accept in music where there are lots of hooks or a lot going on instrumentally it can take a back seat, and there are lots of bands who say themselves that the lyrics are totally irrelevant, they're just words to go with the noises (Mastodon, Mike Patton, Devin Townsend spring to mind) but when things are fairly minimilist, what else are folk listening to!?  :lol: