A Huge generalisational Question.

[AndyR]

I'm with you jibidy, I have some illogical thing about wanting "new" when I'm planning on the "next guitar" - I never even consider second hand. I have got two "second hand" guitars, I'm happy with them, but they were in the shop when I was trying, I didn't go hunting, they came to me.

I don't know what to say on the "to gibbo or not to gibbo" question.

A year or so ago, I tried a Gibson LP standard that was creamy and gorgeous in tone and feel. It was £1400, might have got some money off... but I didn't think I was in the market for upgrading my Epi that day, so I walked away (and bought an Explorer for £900 instead :roll:). In many ways, having read what people say about them on here, I suspect I "should" have bought that LP (except I still have my arbitrarily imposed "I won't spend over a grand on a guitar" limit).

Only months later I was looking to replace my Epi, and I bought a new Japanese Tokai Love Rock for £550. It is gorgeous. I tried some real LPs that day, it whipped them soundly. The guy in the shop knew what I was doing, and was happy to put it aside for me for a few hours, he even offered to do it, I didn't ask, while I went off and tried other options - he knew I was coming back even though I wasn't sure.

But it's not quite, I think, as gorgeous as that Gibson I tried a few weeks earlier... But if you were to walk into the room with that gibbo right now and said to me "gimme the Tokai and £850, and it's yours..." I'd have to say "on yer bike mate, it's not worth 850 more than mine..." ...that's why I chose the Tokai that day and didn't decide to save up for when I found another special Gibson.

... it's personal taste and what your dream is. I'm a Fender man really, I'm happy with (even prefer) Mexican and  Japanese, but I do like my headstocks to say "Fender" on them... For Les Pauls etc, I'm not quite so precious about it :lol:

I'd advise caution right now, but I do think you are going to get a Gibson Les Paul sooner or later, and once you've got one, you'll probably get another (and another, etc, if you can) :)

[FELINEGUITARS]

It's a bit of a dilemma:

If you had the cash in your pocket/bank account then I agree - go for a good secondhand one, save a packet over the price of a new one and have it setup/fret dressed by a pro and maybe some BKPs in there.

That way if in time you didn't like it so much you could probably sell it for what you paid for it secondhand (you could swap the BKPs back for the originals  prior to selling and use the BKPs in another axe)

If you don't have the money , and can get good terms on paying monthly then that may be a good option , just be careful to find an LP that you love the feel and sound of

If you went custom built (you knew I was gonna say that) then you can still pay monthly , and get the guitar you want but you wont get it till the price is fully paid off.
It would take a good while to build so you'd have some time , but if it would take you 3 years to get all the money , then it might drive you a bit crazy waiting for your guitar

[Bradock PI]

I am not a fan in the present climate of people spending money they have yet to earn. A well set up Epi or othert copy (good fret dress and action adjustment) with a set of appropriate bkps will probably sound better and be as nice to play as a stock gibson. Epi LPs do not hold their price that well secondhand and you could probably pick up a real nice one for £200-250 which gives you plenty of money for a set of pickups and a setup.

Then enjoy and save, if once you have saved the cost of the Gibson you play them and love them over your Epi or whatever you can have the Bkps changed back to the origional, sell the Epi for close to what you paid and buy the Gibson.

You will enjoy this a lot more and you will be absolutely certain that it is the right guitar.

[FELINEGUITARS]

This might be a good one _ I would check with the seller if it is a bol n neck or a set one
A set neck version of this would be ace

I suggest this as the Aria has a all access neck like on my Lion Models (it was a source of inspiration)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-PE-Les-Paul-Copy-Only-169-99_W0QQitemZ140324012874QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item20abf6834a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

And it's in Newton Abbot, Devon, so may be do-able for you travel wise

[Davey]

try an Edwards ... a forum member had one (Pierre) sold it a bit ago, cos he needed the cash.. and it was one of those even i feel drawn to it. white, black hardware, ebony board, binding all round. and for not a whole lot of money. japanese build quality

here you go: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16460.0
he may still have it. IMO, it's all the les paul you'll ever need... but if the Gibson decal (well, lack thereof) bothers you, there's no helping but getting a gibbo.

[Philly Q]

I think nfe bought that Edwards.

[Alex]

Ok so in september, After a summer of saving, I was planning on buying a nice Les Paul...However as i'm still only a minimum wage dishwasher, when I say Les Paul I mean Epiphone black beauty (or similar).

However a trip to mansons and a try on a real gibson les paul standard I'm now thinking of getting it in finance (is that what its called when you pay monthly?) lol.

I've never spent more than £500 but i've also not owned many guitars.

My mate who was with me at mansons is convincing me with the argument  "you may aswell get the real deal because you'll never need another guitar and you won't think about 'the next step up' you will have exactly what you will ever need."

So my question is this.

Should I spend out over a year paying of a gibson Les Paul?
Or should I stick with student budget and get a cheaper non gibson brand?

My only worry is moddifying. If i get a gibson can I put heavy gauge strings on it for my prefered lower tuning. I know some bands already do. Is it to discriminative against the craftsmanship and thought thats gone into the guitar?

Buy a used one.

[tomjackson]

Just buy a Les Paul, the GAS will never leave you if you don't :?

The Japanese Tokai's are the best Value at around £650, they are very close to the real thing.

The Vintage Lemon Drop for around £250 is meant to be a great guitar for the money.

I have seldom bought things on credit but the things I've convinced myself would be great purchases to buy on credit usually have been and been long term keepers I've got loads of use from.

I say go for it, I put my money in my house which has lost more than you LP ever will!

[jibidy]

Cheers for the replies.

I think i'll end up getting a gibbo and some may say learn the hard way. If it doesn't come off worth it then i'll know in the future.

I could always sell it and go custom or get a cheaper alternative and do it up.

I have always though that getting a cheaper alternative is better but I'm just to lazy. + 1 to andyR buying second hand seems like your not getting the full product.

And I will definatly try lots of LP's like Jonothan said, I will make sure I love the feel and sound.

AAhhh guitars eh?

watch this space.

[dave_mc]

the big problem is that if you go with the gibson, the "you'll never want to upgrade" theory isn't necessarily true. There are *always* better guitars (at least in theory)- if you go with a standard range gibson, you might find you later want a custom shop model, or a more boutique guitar (e.g. huber or similar).

if you won't be happy unless you have a gibson, and you can definitely afford it (i'm not a big fan of buying on credit, unless it's 0% and you definitely have the funds to cover it, because if you don't, you'll be annihilated by the accruing interest from day 1), by all means go for it. Just don't assume that the gibson will definitely make you happy either. :D

If it doesn't have to be a gibson, MIJ copies, as tom mentioned (edwards aren't 100% MIJ, as far as i know they're started off in china, but they're great guitars), can be as good if not better guitars for less cash. Unfortunately they're not as good value at the moment because of the pound's fall versus the yen, it might make more sense to wait until the pound recovers a bit.

[Jonny]

Your mate sounds like my dad, if I were you I'd get a Gibson.

The worst thing that could happen is that you sell it again and try and Epiphone but have money left over for other stuff but since you can try Gibsons, this is unlikely. If you buy an Epiphone, it may be cheaper etc and you might be satisfied however you might think you could've got a Gibson. You wouldn't think that if you got the Gibson instead of the Epiphone.

That's my 2 cents I suppose.

[Bradock PI]

If you buy new you will lose money, if you buy secondhand you probably wont. Watch out for some 0% deals they may be paid for with discount that would be available on the instrument and therefore not really be 0%.

Best of luck finding the right guitar remember to try several shops.

[Jonny]

If you buy new you will lose money, if you buy secondhand you probably wont.

I don't have any to back my response up so I'll just say that that is the biggest load of cr@p ever.

[ailean]

2 things spring to mind here. (this is based on the way I tend to be, it may not apply to you at all)

1) I think you are gas'ing for a Gibson, therfore nothing else will please you as much, and if you don't you'll always wonder if you should have. I'll say again, a good Gibson is worth the money, a bad or average one probably isn't.

2) You always lose money on a new buy, that's just life, but Gibson LP's depreciate less than most others, and gain value over time faster than most others (yes, there will be exceptions, I'm talking genrealities here). A Gibson LP will probably be worth the ticket price again in 3-4 years provided the economy doesn't go further to hell.

The 'take it away' scheme run by the art council is 9 monthly payments at 0% discount, with no catches, a good scheme, I'd probably avoid any others. You need to put down 10% up front.

Make sure you compare as many as possible. When Sue was looking for her's she tried about 4 2008 Standard LP's, one stood out, but was sold before we could buy it. Then a new pair came into stock and one of them was as good, and was black :)

Also play them unplugged and plugged in, the black one we bought sounded good accousticly but wasn't the most stand out, but plugged in it had a projection that floored the others.

If it sounds like a plank unplugged it's probably not worth plugging it in, but if it has some life and resonance then don't discard it until you've plugged it in, it may surprise you.

Check the pickup heights too, make sure they are the same or they will bais your test.

Oh, and we want pics when you get it :)

[Bradock PI]

If you buy new you will lose money, if you buy secondhand you probably wont.

I don't have any to back my response up so I'll just say that that is the biggest load of cr@p ever.

What on earth makes you say that? People that buy new anything buy them because they want new - new houses gain money slower or lose money faster than older ones, antique furniture holds onto value or may increase, New cars, guitars, electrics almost anything carry 15% Vat secondhand ones bought privately do not. Usually drop from new is around the Vat + 10% i.e. minimum of 25%. There are a few things that buck this trend especially things that are in very short supply. Otherwise most such items lose around 50% and clothing items around 80% of their value from new.

If you buy a new Gibson and keep it many years you probably wont lose money in absolute terms, a new guitar gaining those in use scratches etc loses value a secondhand one with a few more may lose a bit but nothing like as much.  I would expect a £1900 Gibson after some use  to fetch around £1400 ish on Ebay. I would expect one bought on ebay for say £1200 to sell for around £1200 am I wrong in that?

Also happend on this maybe some more knowledgeable will shed light if it is as good as the guy is implying

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-pro-II-1979-LC-430-Les-Paul-MIJ-vintage-Matsumoku_W0QQitemZ250434115594QQcategoryZ33040QQcmdZViewItem
QQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DFICS%252BUFI
%252BIEW%252BUA%252BIA%252BUCI%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54