Ceriatone Kits

[Twinfan]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

[mikey5]

Man that is scary. I am throwing my amp modding dreams away

[CJ]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

yeah i figured there was some difficult things involved. by the end of this year, i'll have gone through 3 physics , an intro to comp engineering, circuit analysis, and solid state material science courses. if none of those give me at least a decent idea on how to work with electronics... i'll be pissed.

[HTH AMPS]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

yeah i figured there was some difficult things involved. by the end of this year, i'll have gone through 3 physics , an intro to comp engineering, circuit analysis, and solid state material science courses. if none of those give me at least a decent idea on how to work with electronics... i'll be pissed.

I'd be surprised if any of the courses you're doing will cover anything involving valves.  At least you'll know ohms law after all that study  :roll:

[mikey5]

So were wondering what kind of stuff should we study to learn this stuff
Mike

[HTH AMPS]

So were wondering what kind of stuff should we study to learn this stuff
Mike

basic electronics is essential, you're going to be able to read resistor colour codes, be aware of wattage and how to calculate dissipation, measuring current, knowing what each pin on the valve base connects to (and how this changes depending on the valve used) etc. etc. etc.  it's not something you'll learn over night and not something I can give a structured study plan for.

you'll be best off understanding schematics and studying some of the classic amp designs, maybe get a few books like the Groove Tubes one (its somewhere to start).  Lee Jackson's book ain't bad either. 

hands on experience is the best way, but I would advise to be cautious.  get something simple like an Epiphone Valve Junior, then study the schematic and translate it to the amp so you understand it fully.  from then try some basic mods and note the change in tone each gives.  more than anything, you'll find that you'll be studying all the time - I'll still learning every day and consider that I've only dipped my toe in the water.

[CJ]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

yeah i figured there was some difficult things involved. by the end of this year, i'll have gone through 3 physics , an intro to comp engineering, circuit analysis, and solid state material science courses. if none of those give me at least a decent idea on how to work with electronics... i'll be pissed.

I'd be surprised if any of the courses you're doing will cover anything involving valves.  At least you'll know ohms law after all that study  :roll:

yeah, unfortunately none of this probably will help. next year will be electronic circuits I and II, which should be more help.

[mikey5]

Listen to this Ceriatone JCM 800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLDb3SqEBQ

[HTH AMPS]

Listen to this Ceriatone JCM 800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLDb3SqEBQ

single channel JCM800s don't have that much gain in their stock form.  that amp has either got an extra valve stage inside the amp or a pedal in the front giving it some help.

[hunter]

Listen to this Ceriatone JCM 800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLDb3SqEBQ

Cannot get close to the all time reference JCM800 tone from The Master here: http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=172.0

[Dreichlift]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

yeah i figured there was some difficult things involved. by the end of this year, i'll have gone through 3 physics , an intro to comp engineering, circuit analysis, and solid state material science courses. if none of those give me at least a decent idea on how to work with electronics... i'll be pissed.

I'd be surprised if any of the courses you're doing will cover anything involving valves.  At least you'll know ohms law after all that study  :roll:

yeah, unfortunately none of this probably will help. next year will be electronic circuits I and II, which should be more help.

I don't want to put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm but I'm just starting my third year of electronics and aside from basic electronic theory and working practice have learnt very little that is of use in building or designing  a valve based amplifier. These courses don't cover anything about valves at all and will not tell you why a given circuit is used in an audio application. Information on bandwith and clipping etc is incredibly sparce.

As HTH says you'd be much better getting your knowledge from books, I personally recommend "The Ultimate Tone" series of books by Kevin O'Connor, they are expensive but invaluable and easily the most comprehensive books on valve amplifiers I have yet found.

http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=3

[mikey5]

Do they teach you how to build Marshall style amps? Also does it teach everything from beginner levels. In your opinion. Some of these books that are beginner level loose me on the first page

[Dreichlift]

Do they teach you how to build Marshall style amps? Also does it teach everything from beginner levels. In your opinion. Some of these books that are beginner level loose me on the first page

Kevin O'Connors "The Ultimate Tone" books cover all types of amps, even going into the benefits and faults of particular brands and their patents. They require you have some experience of electronics and are particularly theory heavy in places, however he has also written books that start from the beginning for the complete novice. These are written in laymans terms, using real examples and so are really easy to relate to. They're not pretty, they don't have photos, diagrams are hand drawn but they are filled with information usefull for anyone who owns, uses, repairs, designs or builds amps.

I know I sound like I have shares in the company but I looked through a lot of books before I found these and I feel these are the best.

[CJ]

hmm... with all the parts and a schematic (assuming its a detailed one) then isn't the only thing you really need to know how to do is solder?

There's more to it than that.  You'll need to know how to bias the power valves, what not to touch whenth amps running to avoid shocking yourself, how to reduce hum by twisting heater wires/using shielded cable etc, how to bug fix when you fire it up and it's not working........

yeah i figured there was some difficult things involved. by the end of this year, i'll have gone through 3 physics , an intro to comp engineering, circuit analysis, and solid state material science courses. if none of those give me at least a decent idea on how to work with electronics... i'll be pissed.

I'd be surprised if any of the courses you're doing will cover anything involving valves.  At least you'll know ohms law after all that study  :roll:

yeah, unfortunately none of this probably will help. next year will be electronic circuits I and II, which should be more help.

I don't want to put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm but I'm just starting my third year of electronics and aside from basic electronic theory and working practice have learnt very little that is of use in building or designing  a valve based amplifier. These courses don't cover anything about valves at all and will not tell you why a given circuit is used in an audio application. Information on bandwith and clipping etc is incredibly sparce.

As HTH says you'd be much better getting your knowledge from books, I personally recommend "The Ultimate Tone" series of books by Kevin O'Connor, they are expensive but invaluable and easily the most comprehensive books on valve amplifiers I have yet found.

http://www.londonpower.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=3

yeah, its quite disappointing. i know none of these college courses will really teach you what you want. i'm just hoping that they give me a good enough base to work with so i understand what i'm doing when i go to research building amps later on. the book you're suggesting is a good idea. how many times did you read over everything before you began to get a grasp on everything?
and i'm also hoping to get a job/apprenticeship with an amp builder or repairer next summer. i'm not sure how many i have around me that would be willing, but i figure that's really the only good way to learn- from someone who knows and can show you hands on.

[JamesHealey]

The Metroamp kits different mainly in the transformers and the use of PEC 2W Mil Spec Pots, just good quality hardware and iron and as most guitar amp builders will tell you the transformer is the heart of the amp, George at Metro has cloned his 67 and 68 spec plexi's output via heyboer and they're bloody close copies with a helluva lotta tone going on.

Nik's Iron is just a good modern spec transformer using new production materials and standards, it's not imperial sized laminations, I understand it's got the interleaved pattern from the originals but the insulation material is different which makes a difference, and the steel that is used today is not to the same specs it was back in the day for the laminations, where as Metro's Iron is very close to the original.

Another major factory in the amps tone is the coupling caps used Nik uses Mallory 150s and Metro use Sozo, the main difference in coupling caps is the ESR which is the resistance the cap provides against the signal, Sozo has a much higher ESR than Mallory 150 which contibutes to a sweeter tone, less highs, more mids and fatter overall tone.

I've tried all these products and I'm a firm believer in the fact the Metro stuff is in another league tone wise, but then again so it a great original example of a plexi ya just can't quite copy what 30 years of use does to an amp.

I have owned 3 Ceriatone amps. All have been of a very good quality. My perception is that they are definately a step above the Weber kits, but not quite up to the vintage accuracy of a Metroamp kit.

Vintage accuracy in looks?  I agree, Metroamp kits have the 'look'.

With regard to tone, there won't be a lot (if anything) in it.  And as Marshall changed specs like their underpants back in the sixties, there is no one reference 'tone' anyway!

The Ceriatone stuff is great Indy, drop Nik an email and fill your boots  :D