Why are Epiphones so cheap?

[Skybone]

It's mainly because they're built in a country that has a very low labour cost, unlike the US, and the materials used are of a lower standard.

However, because of the lower labour costs, the Korean Epiphone factory CAN afford someone to check the quality control.  :lol:

[dave_mc]

However, because of the lower labour costs, the Korean Epiphone factory CAN afford someone to check the quality control.  :lol:

 :lol:

[The amazing Phil]

I've noticed epiphone prices plummet recently, not the RRP as such, but some places have some good deals that make the epiphones cheap enough to actually represent good value for money. I guess they figured that the budget market's getting more and more competetive.

As for Epi's Vs Gibson...

Some Gibson's are pretty cr@p, and some epi's are pretty good. Both have quality control that varies so widely that even though Gibsons are generally better, there'll be some epiphones that perform better than some Gibsons. However, a modern Gibson in my eyes isn't worth the cash they want for it, and an epi isn't a good enough copy of it. Tokai copy Gibson far better and with the proper woods, not alder. Who ever heard of an alder Les Paul? If you're not worried about stuff like that the epi isn't a bad buy, but I have to admit most of the epiphones I've tried felt a bit naff, and their pickups aren't up to par at all. I'd really be intrested in trying out an elitist epi, I imagine they're on a par with MIJ Fenders.

[nuntius]

For me, the difference between any lower range version of something and it's higher range counterpart is mostly something for the player to appreciate, more so than the listener.

I recently was testing American Standard Strats against Suhr Strats.. I'm thinking of buying a strat (most likely USA Std) but I wanted a taste for what the next tier of instrument quality would bring me.. Tbh I didn't find the £1k + of sound quality to be there.

What I did find however, was the difference in feel.  The Suhr necks felt amazing; in fact the whole product just felt more solid on the whole.

Same goes for the Gibson/Epiphone thing too.  I don't really agree with whoever said they feel almost the same - they don't.  A/B them, and so long as you've good examples of each Gibson/Epiphone (i.e. not the one that bypassed quality control lol), the Gibson equivilant will feel better.

Better is of course subjective.. but in terms of 'quality' (woods, construction etc) the Gibbo will win.

The Gibson also holds it's value pretty well.. Yes, they do cost a lot of money, but the amount of depreciation really isn't that bad compared to other brands.. you're paying for a name just as much as for the quality - whether or not that's worth it is up to you

[tewboss]

An American guy on a forum I use said that the Gibsons he sets up are no better set up than most of the Korean made guitars.

Down to the original question. The most important factor I think is the name on the headstock which is the reason for price differences - for example many of the Korean made ESP's are better made than the lower end US model gibsons. The Korean company that makes the SE models for PRS puts out better quality instruments than whoever does the Epiphone models, which is why Epiphone models are always discounted.

Obviously better materials are used in the US models from the wood down to the electronics like the pickups, jacks etc. Even if the wood used for the Epiphones is sourced from the same place, its not going to be the better wood.

As nuntius said, the resale value will be higher. That is the reason I decided not to buy a Japanese Tokai model - the instrument is better made than the Gibson equivalent, but the resale value is poor.

[donovan.x]

I have only ever played one Epi and at that point I had never played a real Gibson , so I had nothing to compare it against. Since then I have played and owned numerous Gibsons (Mainly Les Pauls and S.G's) and loved most of them.
From the feeling of this thread I gather that once you have known and loved a real Gibson theres no going back, (I am assuming that all the ones I have played/owned all got a proper quality inspection! :lol: )
Thanks again for all your valued opinions, I will be steering clear of Epiphone. :shock:

[Steve-Mr Pig 2U]

Epiphones are good for the money, we’ve fitted quite a few with BKP's and they sound awesome.

They are cheaper simply because of the cheaper components wood and construction methods used.

70's les Pauls are poor???? Most of Tims Les Pauls are from that era and any one who has played them will tell you they are some of the nicest they have ever played.

[tewboss]

Thanks again for all your valued opinions, I will be steering clear of Epiphone. :shock:

I should also point out that the guitars higher up the range are better guitars like the Zakk Wylde model.

Also its just our opinion. Some Epiphones are made in the US but they don't have exact Gibson equivalents - like the John Lennon Casino. Often all that is wrong with the guitar is the pickups, and as you are on this site you've obviously considered replacing them. I've got a Korean made "PRS" and its a pretty decent guitar - the stock pickups weren't great but that doesn't mean its not a good guitar. Above all its affordable and if you listen to all the great english guitarists they all had cr@ppy instruments.

One other thing I should say is that because most Epiphones are discounted you can get a lot of guitar for the money. Also if you are not after the Gibson name on the headstock seriously look at the Japanese Tokai guitars as they are less than half price of the equivalent Gibson and can be better made (which is why they've been sued so many times).

*oops read the original post and realised you are not a beginner!*

[blue]

70's les Pauls are poor???? Most of Tims Les Pauls are from that era and any one who has played them will tell you they are some of the nicest they have ever played.

oops, i didn't mean all 70's les pauls are rubbish!  i 've played four; one was completely awful, two were okay and one was extremely good.  what i was referring to was the way their prices are creeping up, even for dodgy examples.  given how the vintage market has always obsessed about accurate (i.e. the same as in the fifties) detailing, i find this hard to understand.  their sandwich construction and maple necks could hardly be described as vintage accurate!
but hey, zakk wylde, and apparently tim mills, both play maple necked pauls, and i've got a maple necked eggle berlin.  i like maple necks!  i just think a lot of 70's guitars are being cynically tagged as "vintage" to make extra money.  and to return to the thread, the epiphones are perhaps made more like a "real" gibson than the actual 70's gibsons.

[Elliot]

On the point of Alder - what does an alder body Les Paul sound like compared to a mahogany?  What is the fundamental difference in tone?  On a guess with Fenders (mainly alder) i'd say Alder had less sustain but was brighter, is that right?

[Skybone]

"the Japanese Tokai guitars as they are less than half price of the equivalent Gibson and can be better made (which is why they've been sued so many times)."

The "Lawsuit" is a popular misconception, and didn't actually happen unlike the recent PRS vs Gibson case. In the late 70's Gibson (and Fender) was floundering under the weight of the great quality, far eastern copies of their guitars, as their own products were gaining a reputation for not being that good. So the big companies brought in big company lawyers, and threatened all the small companies that were producing these copies. Unfortunately for the large companies, the threat of the lawsuit couldn't stop these small companies building to supply their home market (Japan) with the big name copies, and so that's why the mid/late 80's copies are so scarce, they were only ever built for the home market, which was no where near as large as the global market.

No lawsuit was ever actually brought against either Ibanez, Tokai, Greco, Burny or any of the other Japanese manufacturer's.

The Alder element of the Korean Epi's is the cap, used instead of maple, then either painted a block colour, or given a veneer. Some of these Epi's to me sound a bit too bright acoustically, as opposed to one with a maple cap, but plugged in they don't sound too bad so long as you roll your tone pot down.

[Floyd Pepper]

I've got an Epiphone Sheraton 335 copy second hand for £260.  I put Seymour Butts Seth Lovers into it and it sounds fantastic.  In fact it sounds better than my Gibson LP.

The Gibson feels like a better guitar.  Everything on the Gibson feels very precise and well made but...I don't actually like that.  My Gibson's spent most of the last 20 years under the bed.  I used to gig with a Hohner strat copy (with changed tuners and pups) as it was just more fun to play.  

The Sheraton's a better guitar than the Epiphone 335 dot.  I tried one of those and didn't rate it.  The moral is give them a try unplugged and if it feels right get it and change the pups.

[willo]

Yeah, I jammed once with a guy who had an Epiphone Sheraton - very nice guitar. I played it and was impressed.

My experience with Epiphones is mixed...I liked my Firebird when I had it but I was young; I had little experience with top end guitars. The neck was comfy, the electronics were shite. But you know, I was quite disappointed with my Gibson when that finally arrived anyway.

I think there is an element of the placebo effect at times...at least to me because I'm not so hung up on the subtleties of guitars. I'm not the kind of person who scutinises necks and fretboard finishing. I just care if it plays well (the Epi did) and sounds good (well, I'll be replacing the pickups soon).

I don't think the difference in price is realistic though, but then I think Gibson's whole pricing policy is way too expensive anyway. It's good to finally see them dropping a bit now, with the LP Classics coming in at £800.

[dave_mc]

where are you getting les paul classics for £800? they've actually gone up a little over here (Northern Ireland)

[willo]

er...fell off the back of a lorry?

Anyway, my apology - its actually £899.

They are here:

http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/options.php?id=1064

How much are they in NI?