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Author Topic: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?  (Read 64978 times)

dave_mc

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #105 on: January 11, 2010, 09:30:46 PM »
ok, i read (most of) what wikipedia had on the subject. I didn't see anything which called the science into question. The bit about "redefining what a peer reviewed journal is" is fairly bad (though knowing how scientists go on, I'm not sure it wasn't just a joke- we used to talk about not publishing in certain journals, or not trusting papers in certain journals, all the time). We also used to talk about "tricks" all the time, there was nothing untoward in using that word. And, from what i can tell (as a layman, but with a little scientific background), the only bit they decided to leave out was the bit about the tree rings, which aren't terribly accurate. It's not like the temperature fell by 10 degrees in the 2000s and they were trying to cover that up...

regarding your point about the climate change science advocates being "fundamentalists", I think it's worth pointing out that several of the scientists involved received death threats from (presumably) climate change deniers. If that's not fundamentalism, I don't know what is.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 09:32:34 PM by dave_mc »

Johnny Mac

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2010, 09:43:16 PM »
Death threats eh!  :lol:
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dave_mc

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #107 on: January 11, 2010, 11:16:53 PM »
yeah, i know. :lol: Now, I'm sure (or at least hope) they're only that, idle threats, but even to go that far is fairly bad.

Ratrod

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« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 12:15:55 PM by Ratrod »
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Philly Q

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #109 on: January 12, 2010, 01:51:06 PM »
And let's have a look at Al Gore whobecame a millionaire with his climate message, shall we. He has four homes, three cars, a 100ft boat and a carbon footprint of a small town.

Does that sound like a guy who believes what he says?

This is a former US Vice President.  He may be something of a hypocrite, but do you think he'd be living in a trailer park, on Welfare, if he had different views on climate change?
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Afghan Dave

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2010, 02:11:32 PM »
No but at least he wouldn't be acting so hypocritically.

The man is a disgrace..



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mikeluke

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #111 on: January 12, 2010, 04:15:27 PM »
If you want an entertaining read on this - try State of Fear by Michael Crichton - has some interesting data in it which show just how short a period of time we have been measuring stuff.

I am sticking by my population control theory - hence 'Band Aid' is not top of my charity donation lists....

 :?
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Philly Q

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2010, 05:32:55 PM »
If you want an entertaining read on this - try State of Fear by Michael Crichton - has some interesting data in it which show just how short a period of time we have been measuring stuff.

I read a Michael Crichton book once (Congo) and it was about 95% "fascinating scientific facts" and 5% plot. 

I can say without a moment's hesitation that it's the worst book I've read in my entire life and Crichton's the worst writer I've ever read.  Compared to him, Dan Brown is Shakespeare.

So I'll have to take your word on State Of Fear, Mike.  :wink:
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Muttley

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #113 on: January 12, 2010, 07:15:25 PM »
Wikipedia should not be your source.

Neither should right-wing news sources, anonymous blogs and web pages run by tin-foil hat consipracy theorist nutjobs.  ;)

Quote from: David St. Hubbins
I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything.

dave_mc

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #114 on: January 12, 2010, 09:21:29 PM »
^ ^ ^ that's fairly specious logic, mikeluke. We might have been measuring for a short while, but we can use various techniques to tell what the temperature was ages ago.

^ agreed, muttley.

Wikipedia should not be your source.

lol, so instead i should make my sources ridiculously biased, conspiracy theory sites?

I check wikipedia quite a lot, for science stuff. Most (if not all) of the stuff I see is accurate.

Here's a hint- if you live in a glass house you probably shouldn't throw stones. You've done it already a couple of times in this thread, to me, and I don't appreciate it. Just because I'm not willing to stoop to your level of ad hominem upon ad hominem doesn't mean you have a better point. If anything, it means you don't have a point because you're hoping that if you throw enough mud, that some of it will stick, and are also hoping that it will act as a smokescreen against the stuff you and the guys you support are doing, which is as bad if not far worse.

again, al gore isn't one of the scientists. There's a difference, as i keep saying but no-one seems to be acknowledging, between people doing it for their own gain (politicians, wacko environmentalists, etc.), and the scientists. Plus as philly said, as a vice president he's hardly going to be going on welfare. Look how much tony blair makes from lectures etc., and he doesn't go near any of the green stuff. I wager he makes a lot more than al gore.

Plus you still haven't answered my point about the world economy. What al gore is making is small fry compared to what the big companies, and governments (from taxes) are making if the status quo remains.

i'm not particularly fond of bono or al gore, fwiw. I agree that al gore is a hypocrite, as is bono. But just because you have some hypocrites jumping on the bandwagon doesn't mean that the research is wrong. I imagine the climate change scientists wish bono and gore would eff off, as they're giving climate change a bad name.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:24:09 PM by dave_mc »

Afghan Dave

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #115 on: January 12, 2010, 09:41:59 PM »
OK,  My point is this.

What do you care about. What motivates your interest?

Instead of guessing, I'll tell you mine.

Maximising Human Welfare.

Spend $100 possibly saving 100 people from suffering in 100 years by delaying climate change by 10 years.

or

Spend $100 saving 100 people from suffering / dying from dirty water & disease NOW

When the world gets off it's ass and does that latter.. I'll be over the f**king moon to support the former.


 
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Johnny Mac

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2010, 10:57:02 PM »
Can you imagine what things will be like when we are at war over fresh water if these hissy fits are anything to go by.

Doomed!  :lol:
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dave_mc

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2010, 11:09:04 PM »
^ hehe.

OK,  My point is this.

What do you care about. What motivates your interest?

Instead of guessing, I'll tell you mine.

Maximising Human Welfare.

Spend $100 possibly saving 100 people from suffering in 100 years by delaying climate change by 10 years.

or

Spend $100 saving 100 people from suffering / dying from dirty water & disease NOW

When the world gets off it's ass and does that latter.. I'll be over the f**king moon to support the former.


 

i agree wholeheartedly with that. Again, though, that's the politicians' realm, not the scientists.

Ratrod

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2010, 10:59:47 AM »

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Ratrod

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Re: Is anyone curious about this snowy weather?
« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2010, 01:44:29 PM »
OK. Done laughing now.

But really, now.

Pretty much all your counter arguments have been against me, the sources and are deviating from the topic itself. And then you accuse ME of throwing mud? After what you just wrote?

You attack my source, I’ll attack yours.

I may be heating up the discussion but it’s you who’s getting personal now.

Then you throw in a cliché metaphore. Well, here’s one for you. “If you only look left, you can’t see what’s coming from the right.”

First you drag me down into the mud, you climb on your moral high horse and say you won’t stoop down to ‘my level’.

Now that’s off my chest, let’s get back on topic. Man made global warming.

Science starts with questions. Is the globe warming up? What causes it? Does man have a serious influence on it? Then you collect data, do observations and you come to a conclusion. Next you have all that reviewed by others who try to shoot holes in it.

The hacked emails show that the IPCC might not have done it that way. It very much looks like they did the following:

They wrote the conclusion first. The globe is warming up because of CO2 and man has a significant influence in that. They collected data and observations to support that conclusion and left out what doesn’t support their conclusion. Those who then try to shoot holes in it are called conspiracy theorists, liars and what not.

This will be investigated. And if it will be proven (and I think it will) that IPCC has manipulated their data to support their own theories, it will mean that it has no scientific value whatsoever. It will all have to be done over.

Is the climate changing? Yes, as it always has been and will be.
Is that caused by CO2. No, but it could be a symptom.
Man’s influence? Negligible.

Does that mean we can do whatever we like? No but don’t overdo it either.

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