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Author Topic: PG Blues questions...  (Read 3300 times)

-Shaun-

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PG Blues questions...
« on: January 08, 2010, 08:52:48 PM »
Hello,

Is it possible to get a PG Blues set with 4 conductor wire so you can have the out-of-phase on a push-pull?

And if the answer is yes, is the "normal" middle position sound different from usual?

Thanks

Twinfan

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 08:55:08 PM »
Yes.

I don't think so!

-Shaun-

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 09:01:31 PM »
Great! Thank you.

Do you have any experience with how far the PG Blues set can venture into rock territory? BTW they’d be going into a LP custom.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 09:05:28 PM by -Shaun- »

Twinfan

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 09:20:25 PM »
I've not played them, so I don't know for sure, but with Alnico II magnets they'll be slightly soft in the bass.

Depends if that's what you're after?

tomjackson

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 09:48:36 PM »

You wouldn't need 4 conductor wiring to wire them out-of-phase.  You are basically just swapping the hot and ground wires round on one pickup so that when you select both of them together they would be back in phase.
But it wouldn't be the same becuase I think the PG blues are magnetically out-of-phase, not just electrically.
How similar they would sound to a normal PAF middle position I'm not sure, probably close but not the same; in the same way a normal PAF set wired out-of-phase sounds similar, but not identical to the PG sound.


tomjackson

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 09:51:23 PM »

Oh and also the neck is wound with heavy formvar wire which will alter the tone of both the neck and mix positions from the normal PAF sound. 

-Shaun-

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 10:19:26 PM »
Twinfan - My main interest in them is for clean/blues tones, but I was wondering how they’d cope with Led Zep, ACDC, Aerosmith, Guns N Roses and things like The White Stripes and The Stooges.

Tomjackson – I know it possible to reverse the phase of humbuckers in the mid position by reversing the hot and ground wires with 2 conductor. But if I wanted to be able to go between in and out of phase with a switch would I not need four conductor?


gwEm

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 10:57:30 PM »
Twinfan - My main interest in them is for clean/blues tones, but I was wondering how they’d cope with Led Zep, ACDC, Aerosmith, Guns N Roses and things like The White Stripes and The Stooges.

Very well, I would imagine.. Mules would give you more versatility for the touch heavier stuff like in your secondary list - but don't forget Slash used A2 magnets, like in the PG set
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FELINEGUITARS

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 11:14:27 PM »
I would order them 4 conductor.
The sound of out of phase  with 2 humbuckers is the same whether or not it is achieved by a reversed magnet or by reversing the electrical polarity .So to have it available on a switch is a cool idea

yes the Formvar insulated wire will make a difference - but it worked well for P Green and Gary Moore
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tomjackson

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 11:17:29 PM »
Twinfan - My main interest in them is for clean/blues tones, but I was wondering how they’d cope with Led Zep, ACDC, Aerosmith, Guns N Roses and things like The White Stripes and The Stooges.

Tomjackson – I know it possible to reverse the phase of humbuckers in the mid position by reversing the hot and ground wires with 2 conductor. But if I wanted to be able to go between in and out of phase with a switch would I not need four conductor?



No, 2 conductor will work for 2 pickups out-of-phase, 4 conductor opens up possibilities of each coil of each HB being out of phase and coil splits etc.  but to put the out-of-phase mod on normal 2 conductor pickups you just need a DPDT switch to cross the wires of one of the pickups so the switch swaps the hot and ground wires.

There's some info here

http://www.blueskillet.com/Gibson_Mods.htm

http://www.blueskillet.com/Misc_Mods.htm#Phase_Reversal

I used to have AII Stormy Mondays and they were great for clean blues, very sweet and toneful.  I let them go in a guitar I sold but will probably get some more when I can afford them.  I think they would cover most of your needs well and with a phase switch could do the PG stuff as well.

here's a clip of me playing them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2PX9JWqCTw

As Twinfan says they are relatively soft in the bass (which equates to sweetness) so if you want something a little more aggressive Mules or Black Dogs might be the way to go.  But I only have experience of the SM's...




Twinfan

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 12:13:49 AM »
Depends on the amp you're using.  Slash uses bright and tight amps, which compensate for the looser bass of AII pickups.

If you're playing a Bassman or JTM45, you'd better like a soft and woolly bass end...

FELINEGUITARS

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 02:03:25 AM »
Twinfan - My main interest in them is for clean/blues tones, but I was wondering how they’d cope with Led Zep, ACDC, Aerosmith, Guns N Roses and things like The White Stripes and The Stooges.

Tomjackson – I know it possible to reverse the phase of humbuckers in the mid position by reversing the hot and ground wires with 2 conductor. But if I wanted to be able to go between in and out of phase with a switch would I not need four conductor?



No, 2 conductor will work for 2 pickups out-of-phase, 4 conductor opens up possibilities of each coil of each HB being out of phase and coil splits etc.  but to put the out-of-phase mod on normal 2 conductor pickups you just need a DPDT switch to cross the wires of one of the pickups so the switch swaps the hot and ground wires.

There's some info here

http://www.blueskillet.com/Gibson_Mods.htm

http://www.blueskillet.com/Misc_Mods.htm#Phase_Reversal

I used to have AII Stormy Mondays and they were great for clean blues, very sweet and toneful.  I let them go in a guitar I sold but will probably get some more when I can afford them.  I think they would cover most of your needs well and with a phase switch could do the PG stuff as well.

here's a clip of me playing them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2PX9JWqCTw

As Twinfan says they are relatively soft in the bass (which equates to sweetness) so if you want something a little more aggressive Mules or Black Dogs might be the way to go.  But I only have experience of the SM's...


Do you actually mean 2 core (as in 2 cores plus braid/earth) or just the single conductor that most vintage type humbuckers had (single plus earthed braid)

I ask because if you use the single conductor and reverse the hot and earth connections you will make the pickup casing live and it will buzz/add noise
I haven't seen any proper 2 conductor wiring on any BKP Humbuckers that I have had but I'm not saying it's not available
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AndyR

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 10:47:33 AM »
Do you actually mean 2 core (as in 2 cores plus braid/earth) or just the single conductor that most vintage type humbuckers had (single plus earthed braid)

I ask because if you use the single conductor and reverse the hot and earth connections you will make the pickup casing live and it will buzz/add noise
I haven't seen any proper 2 conductor wiring on any BKP Humbuckers that I have had but I'm not saying it's not available

That's just cleared something up for me!

I don't bother with phase/coil-tap etc on humbuckers, I tried it years ago and I didn't like it at the time.

But on tele pickups, I want the series/parallel option on a four-way switch (and also, but less so, a phase switch sometimes) and so I've learnt about the "I need an extra wire" to earth the neck pickup's cover separately...

Ever since I learnt it, it's had me wondering why you don't get this "pickup casing live" issue on humbuckers when you switch phase - obviously you do! :lol:

Many thanks :D
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Plexi Ken

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 11:26:26 AM »
Do you have any experience with how far the PG Blues set can venture into rock territory? BTW they’d be going into a LP custom.

Hi, welcome to the forum  :)

I have PG Blues in my LP Std and IMO the bridge pickup does Classic Rock very well, they sound pretty much like this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE4HGlmtOcg

Be aware that the Heavy Formvar wire on the neck produces a tone unlike standard humbuckers, it a more strat-like tone, low gain and clear. Also, the middle position is more flexible then first appears as adjusting either volume (even a small amount) produces a large difference in tone.
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-Shaun-

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Re: PG Blues questions...
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 02:43:44 PM »
to have it available on a switch is a cool idea
 

Jonathan, I'm glad you're into the idea as you're currently building the guitar in question (Black Lion Custom). :D

I know we originally speced Mules but every clip I’ve heard of the PG set I've really liked. The only issue is all the PG clips are blues and I'm curious as to how they will cope with a bit of gain. Soft and woolly bass doesn't sound too appealing.

Maybe Mules with a phase reversal switch/push pull pot is a better bet.