String Gauge for JazzBox

[Keven]

Hello! there seems to have been quite a few jazz guitar dicussions recently, and it made me whip out box and have fun with it, but i can't help but feel it is acoustically devoid compared to what it should be. i was thinking about two things, mainly.

the first, and foremost, strings. i previously strung this guitar with 11-49 elixirs. good feel. i was recently on a 10-52 binge so i put that on.. it doesn't quite work as well though, this guitar has a floating rosewood bridge and it seems there are gaps at each end of the bridge where it connects to the body. actually, the gap is bigger on the treble side so i figure it's because of the split gauge. Now, i want to give this guitar big strings, i'm whipping it back into recording shape as i have a few string of studio recordings to come and i was to use this one for the clean parts. it's a spruce top with maple back and sides and mahogany neck (crafter FEG700).

The real question is. how big can i go and still tune it to standard (or at least flat, which is how the recordings are tuned) and not be afraid of anything bad happening on the guitar? i figure where things can go wrong is the neck, since archtops don't really pull on the top of the guitar, they actually push down right? I was thinking 14-68 nickel set, but thinking maybe this could be overkill. what's the general opinion? this is purely a chord guitar with some clean leads, this is not for blues bending. the scale is 25.5.

also, i have a fully rosewood bridge. i have the opportunity to get a graphtech TOM resomax bridge with string saver saddles for real cheap and i was thinking about swapping the rosewood bridge for the metal one. this is bound to kill the ''acoustic'' quality of the guitar right?

[Fourth Feline]

Hiya Keven.  :)

I will address your questions in order :

1) The fact that the floating bridge has gap(s) at it's edges - where it does not follow the arched contour of the guitar, is a common problem ; remedied by trying one of the following two 'tricks'. It is not string gauge dependent.

 Firstly ( and the simplest solution ) is to get a replacement bridge ( base ) that has a gap in the centre of it's base. This allows it to readily bend / follow the contour, without sanding. This is my usual solution, if the wood of the stock bridge is too stiff to 'flex'.



This second picture shows the type that you may have and I have had -  that often needs shaping to the guitar top. You need to carefully hold sandpaper ( grit side up !  :lol: ) on the guitar top, and sand the bridge against this to fit.  



 

2) You can use ( as I do on mine ) 14 - 55 gauge strings in standard tuning, no problem, as long as you set the truss rod accordingly.  This is further assured by the fact you have a 'Lyre' type tailpiece - which makes heavier strings feel lighter.  I would however, recommend Thomastik-Infeld 14-55 'Be-Bop' strings, not just for tone, but because T.I. strings have a relatively lighter gauge on the bottom four strings, than any other type - all without loss of balance or volume. They also have round core bass strings, which are more supple.  The overall effect is that the fretting hand feels  very comfortable, even with a Barre chord on the higher frets e.t.c.

3) Set the truss rod appropriately , and use it with the strings heavy and low - otherwise , you might as well pick up any 'ordinary' guitar , if you want lighter gauges and string bending.  I do not recommend using a Jazzer just for 'Fancy Dress' purposes.  For a Jazzer to feel comfy, take advantage of the heavier string's ability to remain rattle free and 'in place' at an action of about 0.7 mm ( 1/32" )  at the 12th fret.
I have even strung my Les Paul with T.I. 14-55s with no 'accidents' , but the standard tailpiece - and mechanics thereof, make it feel much stiffer than a Lyre tailpiece.

4) the 25.5 " scale you have  is going to feel stiffer anyway, as the ideal scale for a 'softer touch' is 24.75". As a result, you might want to start at T.I. 12 - 50s (?) -  the main point being that T.I. ( and to a lesser degree Newtone Archtop strings ) - with their relatively heavy bass strings ) are designed to break in and sag better under your fingers. Try the same gauges in conventional 'Rock/ Blues' type string brands, and they feel like fence wire !

5) As for the T.O.M bridge option ; buy it as an experimental spare ( I have a couple of each type in my parts box ) - but there is no real advantage over wood, and in fact most ( including me ! ) prefer the wooden bridge option, for tone and feel.  The T.O.M. bridge top option only became fashionable,  to placate the players who did not want to set the intonation on an archtop the 'old fashioned way' by shuffling the entire wooden floating bridge around , till it was spot on. I actually find a fully wooded bridge a lot faster to intonate than a T.O.M.  

As for the tonal attributes of T.O.M. bridge tops over wood ;  we all have our preferences - but to over generalise somewhat -  wooden bridges seem to subtly blend the notes together a bit, and dampen  harmonics / initial sustain a touch.  However , this gives rise to a note with strong fundamentals - and a sustain that 'blooms' up after the note begins to sound.  Both of those qualities are 'Jazz desirable'.   There is no right and wrong, but for me, an all wood bridge sweetens a bright guitar, and the metal topped T.O.M seems to add a little punch to the notes on a darker sounding guitar.

Finally ( for now ) - do not get too hung up on it's acoustic sound, as the amp can be quickly E.Q's to match the guitar.  Yes, a nice acoustic sounding guitar is a hint of great things to come, but bear in mind that even elite guitar builders like Sadowsky / D'Aquisto e.t.c, often use laminate guitar bodies, as that often gives a sweet amplified sound, if you want the darker, Grant Green, Wes Montgomery type tones.  A fully carved solid wood guitar is most desirable of course, but is not always 'King Of The Hill'  when amplified. Different, but not always better.

I hope that gets you started .  :)

[Keven]

Thanks for the very educated answers :D

I really want to set it up for chord melody stuff, at the moment it's mostly getting used by the missus who's banging some sort of indie shoegaze rock on it. shame if you ask me! so getting a proper string gauge to it and lower action and stiffer rod will definitely help keep it in shape and stop it from getting banged!

I'm quite used to big strings though, and i kind of want to try the 14-68 idea, but is there a risk of damage to the guitar itself for the tension? (i will try 13-56 at first for a while and see how the guitar reacts to it)

the guitar itself is quite bright, so i'll stick with the wooden bridge, i found it did give it a more... woody, for lack of any other word, quality to the notes, even with nickel steel strings.

[Fourth Feline]

Hello again Keven,  :)

I am glad you gave me the opportunity to also mention ( now I have eventually remembered ) - that when I was buying spare / replacement wooden bridge bases ( usually the only way I could get my hands on a cheap wooden bridge top ) - I found that the potential  for overhang / bridge gap problems  faced when the bridge does not readily fit the guitar contours - can be eliminated  if you buy a shorter bridge  with the underlying gap - as in the top photo.  It was only when I read the small print on the web site of some guitar spares supplier - that I realised some importer's default size is approximately  13-14 cm wide - and some other merchants about 14-15cm.  That extra 1cm was causing 'overhang'/ gaps on my 16" Archtop, so I mixed 'n' matched  the new wooden top of the 15cm based bridge , with the footprint of the old 13cm T.O.M. topped version. Of course, the adjustment posts are spaced the same on both.

As for the heavier Bass strings you would prefer, I was reading up on some Jazz Guitarists web site, and he uses 14,18,24,39,49, and 60.  After all, it is me that wimps out on the bass strings, not the Archtop(s)  :lol:

As you prefer a more 'normal' gradient of gauges - I think the excellent Newtone Archtop  strings do a 14 top . They certainly do a nice 13-56 set.  They are half the price of T.I. brand - and excellent ( round core, two layers of wind ) quality . The website 'Strings Direct' also sell spare plain Newtone single strings - for further experimentation at the same level of quality.


Otherwise, I ( and a Luthier I used to know back in the day ) - seem to feel that a heavier strung guitar with appropriate truss adjustment - is a happy and resonant guitar.  The only 'Horror story ' I ever heard - was of a cheap ( and somewhat pre-stressed ) plastic nut cracking under the low 'E' . This was ( I feel ) the guitar's natural way of asking for better quality components  :lol:  - and even that being nothing that superglue couldn't fix in a hurry.  Otherwise,  the wonders of applied Physics and geometry that comprise the design of an Archtop - are of course a match made in heaven with the substantial  string gauges of yesteryear.

When you get round to it, do post a nice photo - and tell me how and what you settled with ; as 'Archtopery' and 'Chordmelodyitis' are rare to make an appearance on this otherwise excellent and friendly forum.

Cheers !  8)

[Keven]

I'm but a humble beginner in the realms of chord melody, but i'm an electric player, and i feel an archtop is the closest i can bear to get to an acoustic. i'll probably try sanding the bottom of the bridge carefully so it's evenly flush, and get a ''standard'' 13-56 set, and if it feels right, i'll probably go bigger when tuning to E flat for the recordings (some parts in my heavy metal band has swing jazz interludes with wes montgomery style octave melodies overdubbed on top, it needs that archtop acoustic sound :D)

thanks for all the info, if the biggest problem is the nut, i'll probably buy a new one to carve for the bigger strings, and keep the original as a spare if i feel like going back to a smaller gauge. but i have enough rock guitars as it is :D