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Author Topic: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting  (Read 4276 times)

mikebot

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Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« on: March 30, 2010, 02:23:52 AM »
Hey guys, i was wondering if anyone here has any ideas regarding my Les Paul electronics problems.

The guitar is an 88' Les Paul Custom that i have owned for a few years but used very little due to the problems i am having. When i first played the guitar (didn't try before i received it because it was an 18th birthday gift from my parents from america!) i noticed that the guitar with its stock pickups, which were a Gibson "The Original" HB-L/HB-R set electronics sounded ridiculously bright bright and thin with practically no low end. I thought it was the pickups at fault so i bought a Seymour Duncan JB/59 set to try, and whilst sounding very slightly better still sounded really thin and weak. After that i replaced the electronics with new 500k pots to no avail and have since tried a SD Seth Lover set for fun with no improvement.

To put things into perspective, my tele with a dimarzio pre-b1 in the bridge (a fairly hot and beefy single coil) sounds MUCH thicker and has alot more low end!  :(

Does anyone have any troubleshooting ideas?
Or perhaps some pickup suggestions for once the issues are resolved?
Im looking for a fairly low output set that can pull off a fairly beefy modern rock sound. I play through an Orange Rockerverb 50 head into an orange 2x12 cab with a few pedals.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as im looking forward to having this guitar set up up as my main go to studio guitar!

Searcher

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 06:11:31 AM »
This is probably a stupid question, but how close have you gone with the pickups to the strings?  Have you tried them right up close?  My recent LP purchase has seen me setting the pickups much closer to the strings than I've ever gone before with any other guitar.  Just doesn't sound right otherwise.
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Aaagh! Help!!! The GAS!!! The GAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tellboy

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 09:33:35 AM »
I have an '89 Les Paul Standard which also came with "Original" HB (Bill Lawrence) pickups. I've had a few pickup changes in it since then and none of them produced what I would describe as thin/bright sounds. As I believe Customs after 1968 were constructed with a maple top like the Standard (not all mahogany like 50s models) it should have sounded similar.  Could it possibly be a wiring fault? - to eliminate this connect one of the pickups direct to the output socket (i.e. bypass all internal controls/wiring).
My Standard now has a set of Mules which to me makes the guitar sound better than it ever has. Previously I had a set of Crawlers which were also great but higher output.
John Suhr - "Practice cures most tone issues"
Crawler,Mule,Apache,Piledriver,Bl. Guard,Cold Sweat

ericsabbath

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 10:12:24 AM »
black dogs?
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Twinfan

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2010, 10:17:18 AM »
I had a Les Paul like that, which also had a lot of sentimental value.  It weighed a lot, and even with various pickup swaps it never had enough balls.

I sold it.

If it's not working for you, trade it for something else and 'transfer' the sentimentality.  You can't fix wood that doesn't do it for you.

The Sorbz

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2010, 11:58:11 AM »
I have an '89 Les Paul Standard which also came with "Original" HB (Bill Lawrence) pickups. I've had a few pickup changes in it since then and none of them produced what I would describe as thin/bright sounds. As I believe Customs after 1968 were constructed with a maple top like the Standard (not all mahogany like 50s models) it should have sounded similar.  Could it possibly be a wiring fault? - to eliminate this connect one of the pickups direct to the output socket (i.e. bypass all internal controls/wiring).
My Standard now has a set of Mules which to me makes the guitar sound better than it ever has. Previously I had a set of Crawlers which were also great but higher output.

Woah!!!  I have the same - an 89 LP Custom with the 'Original' pickups in it. I have tried other pickups in it but none beat the Bill Lawrence ones - it sounds as beefy as hell!!  (That includes a calibrated Nailbomb set!!)

How do you find these pickups?

Jim

The Sorbz

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2010, 12:03:50 PM »
To the OP - I would suggest a complete rewire - remove the pickups and all pots and wiring. Then replace the pickups after testing them with a Multimeter to see if their output is as it should be.  Then replace all pots with new (CTS?) ones and wire together with new, top grade wire. You can buy top quality Les Paul wiring looms.  Then wire this loom to a new jack plug and also ensure your pickup selector switch is correctly wired.  What you must also not forget is the earthing side of the circuit - particulary the bridge - is it connected to the earth side of the circuit.

It won't be the wood if you are saying the sound is really thin - it'll be somewhere in the wiring circuit. The pickups could be wird out of phase or backwards. You must solder the correct colour wire to the correct place on the circuit, other ise you'll have all sorts of problems, especially thin sounding guitars.

Ta,
Jim

Tellboy

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2010, 12:14:20 PM »
I have an '89 Les Paul Standard which also came with "Original" HB (Bill Lawrence) pickups. I've had a few pickup changes in it since then and none of them produced what I would describe as thin/bright sounds. As I believe Customs after 1968 were constructed with a maple top like the Standard (not all mahogany like 50s models) it should have sounded similar.  Could it possibly be a wiring fault? - to eliminate this connect one of the pickups direct to the output socket (i.e. bypass all internal controls/wiring).
My Standard now has a set of Mules which to me makes the guitar sound better than it ever has. Previously I had a set of Crawlers which were also great but higher output.

Woah!!!  I have the same - an 89 LP Custom with the 'Original' pickups in it. I have tried other pickups in it but none beat the Bill Lawrence ones - it sounds as beefy as hell!!  (That includes a calibrated Nailbomb set!!)

How do you find these pickups?

Jim

Haven't got them now as they went on ebay to finance replacements. I had them in the guitar for about 12 years and thought they were OK - just wanted to try something else. Didn't like the printed circuit board fixing  - I think the bridge was reasonably high rating (12 - 14k). The Mules (unpotted nickel covers) just seem to give me more of the sound I want. Although not as high gain as other pickups I've had in the guitar I can get as much gain as I want from my Cornford Hellcat or a BBpreamp in the Hurricane.
John Suhr - "Practice cures most tone issues"
Crawler,Mule,Apache,Piledriver,Bl. Guard,Cold Sweat

Alex

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 10:01:58 PM »
Sell it on Ebay.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog

Prawnik

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2010, 10:27:33 AM »
I don't know that the OP can or wants to sell a gift.

So if I wanted to beef up the tone of a Les Paul, I would start by putting heavier strings on and playing with string heights (probably you should raise the strings). Watch the truss rod. The string tension of heavier strings on a Gibson scale length guitar will feel similar to lighter strings on a Fender scale guitar.

Then I would jack around with tailpiece heights, try top-wrapping and/or a different tailpiece, such as a Tonepros locking unit. You may also want to install steel tune-o-matic studs and try swapping out the Nashville tailpiece for an ABR-1.  Remember that a Les Paul Custom owes a lot of its construction techniques to Gibson archtops so treat it sort of like an archtop. Again, watch the truss rod.

Details can be found on the Les Paul Forum.

In my experience, may "bad" guitars are just not set up optimally. Once you have a setup that gives you maximum playability and sound, only then should you look to pickups and electronics (I personally like diMarzio potentiometers and vintage caps).

The result is a guitar that will help you score with chicks.

Philly Q

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2010, 10:51:39 AM »
So if I wanted to beef up the tone of a Les Paul, I would start by putting heavier strings on and playing with string heights (probably you should raise the strings). Watch the truss rod. The string tension of heavier strings on a Gibson scale length guitar will feel similar to lighter strings on a Fender scale guitar.

I was going to ask about string gauges, even though on first impressions you'd think your problem is due to the electronics. 

This may be completely unscientific but.... if you have a big hefty relatively "inert" guitar like a Les Paul, it seems sometimes that very light strings just aren't "strong" enough to get the body resonating.  I haven't come across this for a long time because I try to buy light, resonant guitars, but many years ago I noticed it when I put .009s on my Hamer Special - it seemed like the guitar had died.
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Prawnik

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Re: Les Paul Pickup Suggestions/Troubleshooting
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 01:17:30 PM »
Another thing you can do is try downtuning. Some guitars seem to resonate better if you downtune. Some don't.

It's an experiment that costs nothing and if you don't like it you can change it back in seconds.