Painkiller or Cold Sweat for my rig/style?

[JakeAC5253]

HI!  I am eager to get into the world of BKP, but I am having trouble deciding.  I play stuff all the way from Thrash like Slayer to Death metal like Morbid Angel or Cannibal Corpse all the way up to more progressive styles like Nevermore, Mastodon, or Meshuggah/Periphery.  I do tend to lean more toward the progressive and modern end of things.

The guitar that I am looking to upgrade is a Fender strat with a Poplar body that has a pretty bright personality, so I am thinking maybe something darker?  Then again I use lots of deep downtunings so too dark would be bad as my riffs would turn to mud.  I need only a Bridge pickup.

Everyone suggests the Painkiller as the pickup to get, but I know that Bulb of Periphery uses the Cold Sweat pickups and I love his tone as it seems to be very clear and articulate on the gain, but also good cleans.  I've also read on this forum that the Painkiller is a brighter pickup, which probably won't go with my guitar very well.  My rig is going to consist of amps like a Peavey 6505, Dual Rectifier, or ENGL Savage through my Mesa Rectifier cab.  (I don't actually have any of those heads yet haha, still haven't decided, just thought I'd let you know).

So what will give me a thick tone and good touch sensitivity with enough clarity for complex rhythms and downtuned guitars without being too bright? lol

[ericsabbath]

I'd go extreme
c-pig
but I think a miracle man might work
not sure of how it would sound on poplar

[Antag]

I'd go with PK over CS for that guitar.  I have a PK in a very bright guitar (Jackson KV2) & also one with a poplar body (Charvel 5 - OK, it's actually just poplar body wings with a maple thru-neck/centreblock).  IMHO it will do what you want better than a CS.

FWIW, I have an Engl Savage head & would avoid any cab with Vintage 30s - you'll struggle to tame the top end regardless of how bright your guitar is.  Best match for a Mesa Rectifier cab is probably a Mesa Rectifier :)

[dheim]

none of the above...
i'd go straight for a pig, better if ceramic!

[JakeAC5253]

Thanks for the replies!

Eric, did you mean to say w-pig? lol

Antag, thanks for the Painkiller advice.  About your amp advice, I was under the impression that the Savage and other ENGL amps were darker in tonality?  Are you saying that the amp is bright and that this is accented by the high mids of the V30s?

dheim, isn't the Warpig of the more colored sounding BKP pickups?

[MDV]

You sound like you've been getting advice from HCAF? You'd think that the PK was the only bare knuckle and all engls were darker than satans arsehole if you listen to the Opinion of the Month over there.

With the amount of gain on tap on those amps, and their general voicing, youre never going to want for more metalness even with a medium output pickup, so going by voicing youre after both bright and crunchy sounds and thick and dark sounds, some razor-blade tones, some warmer and fatter tones and the best voiced pickup to hit the middle ground on those is probably the Nailbomb, and get the engl for the versatility (they can be made to sound dark and thick, and bright and open if you know how to dial them in).

[MDV]

And no, Eric I'm certain meant to say C-Pig

Ceramic Warpig

A warpig with a ceramic magnet.

Its the pinnacle of auditory devastation in pickup form. I used to use them, but backed off to less insane winds to get more clarity, transients and definition back.

[JakeAC5253]

I have no idea what HCAF is.  I post on Guitar World, Rig-Talk, Sevenstring, and a handful of home and professional recording forums.  If Harmony Central is what you are referring to then I registered there a while ago, posted about four times total and stopped visiting completely because it's the most ignorant, ass backwards place on the internet.

[JakeAC5253]

Also, you make a good case about the Savage, very convincing.  What do you think about the Peavey 6505 (not the + model)  I was thinking about getting that simply for monetary reasons.  Money is a bit tight over here and it's still quite a bit more amp then what I've got now.  Whatever I buy will be my first all tube amp.  What do you think?

[MDV]

HCAF Is harmony central amps forum, the most ignorant, ass backward place on harmony central

Anyway, the 5150 is a decent metal amp, but its got a distortion that sounds like a 5150 24/7 (later machine head, arch enemy, every other death metal band) and some of my favourite recorded tones are on them, but when compared to any engl, let alone the savage, they arent nearly as versatile, especially in their cleans and crunch sounds and also in that engls have more variable controls and take an EQ pedal very well to be able to get open, brighter tones and darker, thicker tones - my powerball can get *something like* each of those sounds properly dialed in, but it wont nail any of them - it still sounds mostly like a powerball.

A 5150 might sound great to you, but its never going to reasonably emulate a slayer tone (save maybe diabolous in musica, divine intervantion and maybe god hates us all; the darker, smoother sounds), or mastodons fat, bright crunch or deaths razor-edged tone. It wont do a half bad job of nevermore (I think some NM is actually recorded on 5150, iirc) and CC.

No one amp is going to sound like a rectifier (cannibal corpse), krank (nevermore), JCM800 (slayer) laney VH100 and I forget what marshalls (mastodon) or VS100s (I think, but I've seen doubt cast on that - death). A savage, powerball, invader, or if youre feeling rich a Diezel will get you closest to getting in the ball park of all of them, but wont nail the lot.

Most important thing on the amp is try out a bunch of them and get the one that fits whatever summation/interpretation of all these other sounds = your style and go with that. This is doubly important if its your first valve amp - I dont believe that that purchase should be made without EXTENSIVE play testing (because I didnt and went through a few before getting my PB, which I'm mostly happy with, but still hunting for the imaginary sound in my head).

Try to get it second hand too, since your first amp is unlikely to be your last and you dont want to be at a loss when you sell it on, which theres a higher chance of with your first than any other!

JMO.

[JakeAC5253]

Awesome, a friend of mine has a Savage that he's going to let go of second hand.  I might pick that up.

So again, why does no one like the Cold Sweat bridge humbucker?  I'm not being thickheaded, no one's really made much of a case against it though.

[MDV]

I dont think many people do not not like it. Its a well-liked pickup

I cant speak for the others, but I didnt support the choice and went with nailbomb because the CS is a bright, open pickup and you want some dark, thick sounds. Its not that it outright cant do that, it can be made to with the right amp and settings, but I thought a more middle ground voicing would be better for you.

[MDV]

Oh, fwiw, the CS is apparently an underwound ceramic magnet cold sweat - from comparison with my favourite pickup (today at least!), the ceramic nailbomb, its the same family sound; the cs is brighter, more open, less compressed but it has a similar character, just sort of shifted up the spectrum a bit.

[JakeAC5253]

I don't know if it is unholy to mention Seymour Duncan here, but I have a Duncan Invader in the guitar right now and it's probably my favorite pickup that I've owned and I've owned a few different ones from a number of different brands.  Where does that stand in the sound spectrum?  Similar to any BKP models?  I like how full up on the volume knob it is compressed and hot sounding and when you roll back on the knob it warms up and gives a great clean tone.  The note separation is what gets me with this pickup.

[Nolly]

I'd recommend the c-pig as well, especially after what you said about the Invader. I'd wager the Cold Sweat would be overly bright in your guitar.