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Author Topic: Bigot!  (Read 16021 times)

MisterMuncher

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 12:21:54 AM »
Honestly, he did something everyone does hundred of times in an average lifetime, even moreso if your job/existence involves large-scale immersion in the General Public(tm). Anyone who denies that they've been pleasant to someone's face for the sake of appearances and called them a bollocks once their back was turned is a liar.

He committed the cardinal sin. He got caught.

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 06:33:14 AM »
You are right I suppose Philly. I wonder why he had the mic on him - was it a deal he had with them? Surely he must have agreed to it but forgot about it momentarily. I think it was an overreaction though as the lady didn't give him that hard a time I thought. I wouldn't condemn a man on this one event bearing in mind that we all make mistakes but even so, I'd have expected something a bit better from a public figure seeking the approval of the public and especially those who don't necessarily support him. Rightly or wrongly this will have put a lot of people off him.
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Plexi Ken

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 10:19:11 AM »
I have heard that it's common practice that someone provides a radio mic and everyone gets access to the sound feed. It would be difficult (in a walk-about situation) for every News outlet to bring their own soundman + kit. I suspect that may change from now on. I would have though there would have been some agreement over when the feed was switched off though, I would.

I don't think perception of Brown has changed. Those who dislike him will have their believes confirmed. Those who like him will think he's being unfairly treated. A bit like Bush in Fahrenheit 9/11 it didn't change view, just entrenched them.

Once again the focus is on something (nearly) irrelevant, we're in for massive cuts (someone on the TV a couple of days ago predicted 500,000 jobs lost in the public service) and serious tax rises, IMO that's what should be the issue.

Notice that none of the other parties are making any political capital out of it. They know it could have easily been them.
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nfe

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2010, 10:47:48 AM »
at's what should be the issue.
Notice that none of the other parties are making any political capital out of it. They know it could have easily been them.

They're leaving so as not to look like vultures. And because Rupert Murdoch is making sure it's all getting gazillions of press anyway.

AndyR

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 11:07:05 AM »
I have to admit that he went up in my estimation because of this (and the over the televised debates and, and the rest of it, etc) :lol:

He was basically having a go at his people, in a "sheesh... where did you dig that one up? Wot a disaster... why am I doing this walkabout cr@p?"

When his people ask "what was the problem?" in a "did we miss something?" kind of way, he replied "she was just a bigotted woman" in a very calm and end-of-conversation fashion, which in that particular exchange, in that car, considering who they were and what job they were doing at the time, meant "oh, it wasn't a big deal, don't worry boys you did ok... she was just an opinionated woman that I could have done without..."

The big mistake he made was that he had a microphone on...

And moments later a camera crew, with a reporter who admits "I haven't actually heard it", approaches a jolly old pensioner who has a "I just spoke to the pm and said my piece, I'll be on the telly" smile on her face, and asks, in a "not sure I should be doing this" tone of voice - "He just called you a bigot - what do you think of that?"

First, he didn't call her a bigot, he said she was a "bigotted woman", which has a slightly different meaning (I had to look it up too). All across Newsnight etc that night they were saying "bigot" - did anyone else notice that the next night all BBC correspondents had changed the reference to "bigotted woman", the only people still saying "bigot" were interviewees with an anti-Brown bias?

Second, they initially gave this woman the impression that he had made some sort of public statement condemning her - that's what made the story so big. He didn't, he said it in private. He and his team c--ked up in that they didn't get the mic removed. The reporter that put the question to her knew this and felt embarrassed doing it...

Thirdly, he can deal with this kind of sh1t - it's part of the bluddy job description. But look what they've done to her just to get a story?!! Complete F U C K E RS, I hate them (the media), and us for wanting and supporting this sort of bullsh1t...

Mebbe she is bigotted (not a "bigot", which can only be a perjorative term the way most of us use the language). I know of some ordinary people who've also heard what she said and whose reactions have been "of course she bluddy is!!"... BUT, then so is Mr Brown, so am I, ... we are ALL bigotted to some extent (= opinionated to the extent of sometimes being intolerant of other peoples views, esp religion, politics, etc)

Anywhooo - I was seriously considering not voting this time... It probably is time for a change, but I am still not ready to go back to the Conservatives, especially with the people they have at the top... I don't trust Saint Clegg at all (and I actually disagree with some of his apparent policies) - and because of the developments of the last few weeks I cannot safely vote LibDem as a protest/wotever, because there's a real danger he might get in now if too many people do that!

So who can I vote for?? Enter the media circus with people dissing Gordon Brown because he can't relate to the public with his eye contact and body language, telling me he's doomed, etc... - I'm watching the same sh1t they are, to me he seems a bloke so passionate about getting the job done and so scared of what he believes the others are going to do, that he forgets what his bluddy spin-doctors and media-fukwits keep trying to train him to do... I LOVE IT! That's what i'm like... the other two are just... I dunno what what... mebbe they could do the job, but I can't hear any better solutions, Mr Clegg, especially, just sounds like the media I hate so much...

The bottom line, as far as I can make out for my own decision making, is that whoever gets in is f@cked. Overall tax is going to have to go back to levels of the mid-80s, the housing-market is going to have to crash properly, there are going to be strikes, unemployment, etc, etc, it's going to be a complete and utter fukfest... SO, whoever it is, they're unlikely to last a full term, and they will go down in flames, and in 10-20 years they will be marked as one of the failures in the history of UK politics...

I've been through what we're about to face before, though this one might be worse. All we have to do is survive it, and we need some sort of management team up the top... personally I'd rather have the dour b@stard who wants to get on with the job, doesn't know how to charm me, and who isn't promising me a load of stuff that I don't think we can afford on top of telling me that we have to cut it all back at the same time...

I was open to suggestions, but over the last few weeks:
* Conservatives and Libdems have lost me through their own utterances
* Gordon Brown - who I didn't have an opinion on or know much about - turns out not to be some sort of sickly media whore
* Things like this "bigot" issue have convinced me to vote Labour

I'll take whatever we get lumbered with after May 6th.

(I was REAL wary about posting this - rip it apart like you want folks :lol:.
Any actual "political" content is all my own opinion, obviously, and I've only left it in to illustrate how there might be some people, like me, who will actually be helped to decide "Labour" because of things like what the media did the other night... I'd already decided a day or two before bigot-thang, but all it did was confirm my opinion that, for the present, Brown/Darling is who I want in charge...)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:11:12 AM by AndyR »
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Philly Q

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2010, 12:15:21 PM »
You've almost convinced me Andy, but could you condense it into a series of nice simple little bullet points?  :wink:
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Johnny Mac

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2010, 12:17:02 PM »
You've almost convinced me Andy, but could you condense it into a series of nice simple little bullet points?  :wink:

+ 1 Andy I clicked away, I don't have the time to read that much let alone write it!
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Afghan Dave

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2010, 12:47:18 PM »
Andy, I completely disagree with your re-interpretation of Brown's comments as "oh, it wasn't a big deal, don't worry boys you did ok... she was just an opinionated woman that I could have done without..."

But

Would you really say that even with this most rose tinted view of his actions you would be persuaded to vote in the rest of the labour govt who have run this country into the ground for the last 13 years?

Illegal Wars / bankruptcy / expenses scandal / no promised vote on EU constitution?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...
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dave_mc

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2010, 01:04:51 PM »
bigoted is the adjective coming from the noun bigot. I don't see your point.

"John is a bigot" means the same thing as "John is a bigoted person".

Am I missing something?

I agree he's being crucified, and I think it's daft if you change who you're going to vote for based on it (I'd love to see what mics placed in the bullingdon club, sorry tory headquarters, would pick up), but it doesn't exactly reflect on him well. I agree wholeheartedly, though, that they're all saying stuff like that and the others just weren't caught.

I'm not sure how that makes gordon not a media whore- he was all smiles on camera, and then completely different off it. I agree that he's no good at the slick politician thing (and I would also agree that that makes next to no difference as to whether he should get elected, as long as he's not so bad that he's causing international incidents :lol: ), but he's still trying to do it.

regarding whom to vote for... I disagree with some things they're all saying. However, I disagree least with the lib dems. At least now (maybe... probably not if the media gets its way) it's the least of 3 evils rather than the lesser of two.

interesting thought- if whoever gets in next will be unelectable for the next generation (as I've heard some people in the media saying), would that be a reason to vote for the tories?

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2010, 01:06:07 PM »
You've almost convinced me Andy, but could you condense it into a series of nice simple little bullet points?  :wink:

+ 1 Andy I clicked away, I don't have the time to read that much let alone write it!

:lol:

Condensed version:

I have heard that it's common practice that someone provides a radio mic and everyone gets access to the sound feed. It would be difficult (in a walk-about situation) for every News outlet to bring their own soundman + kit. I suspect that may change from now on. I would have though there would have been some agreement over when the feed was switched off though, I would.

I don't think perception of Brown has changed. Those who dislike him will have their believes confirmed. Those who like him will think he's being unfairly treated. A bit like Bush in Fahrenheit 9/11 it didn't change view, just entrenched them.

Once again the focus is on something (nearly) irrelevant, we're in for massive cuts (someone on the TV a couple of days ago predicted 500,000 jobs lost in the public service) and serious tax rises, IMO that's what should be the issue.

Notice that none of the other parties are making any political capital out of it. They know it could have easily been them.

Thanks Ken - you posted it while I was typing mine...

My only main addition is my utter contempt for the "news" media ... hope that came through :lol:

Sadly, we all need it and rely on it, but it is fatally flawed...

Anyone familiar with the HBO mini-series "From The Earth To The Moon" about the Apollo moon-landings? I love this series and have watched it many times... but I cannot watch the Apollo 13 episode because it makes me SO angry... (luckily there's a film to insert at that point in the story :lol:)

We need free speech, etc, etc... but it means that the media is prey to sometimes unfeeling and ambitious individuals who make snap and sometimes rash decisions (because speed is of the essence), motivated entirely by furthering their own careers, and not by the "public interest", whatever that might be...

I'm fairly certain that the journalist who collared the "bigotted woman" knew she might be doing the wrong thing, and that she was almost certainly going to seriously upset a member of the public, in public... just to generate a better story from an initial story that had perhaps been obtained dishonestly first place...

That girl might have been under orders, and not able to say "no I'm not doing it" - her career would go nowhere bluddy fast if she had. The way she was talking suggests she might have been under orders, but she might also have been just excited and nervous at the prospect of being involved in this scoop.... But what sort of industry is it that you have to be prepared, and even expect, to do, at best, "morally ambiguous" things in order to succeed...???

Yeah, yeah.... I know :lol:
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MrBump

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2010, 01:06:51 PM »
Andy, you are the KING of the extended post!!!

I think I agree with what you're saying (and disagree with Sir Afghan of Dave...)

This country HASN'T been run into the ground.  At the end of any long tenure in power, there are always comments and opinions like these; but life goes on.

I HATED the Tory govenments of the 1980's and 1990's, but that was ideological rather than from anything substantive.  And I don't like some of the things that have happened under Labour, but I would much rather align myself with Brown than Cameron.  

And I like Clegg.  Because he's in favour of voting reform which the Tories (and more importantly, Murdoch) are fundamentally opposed to, because it would make for a fairer system.

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dave_mc

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2010, 01:07:40 PM »
oh yeah, i also agree that it was disgusting how they were camped outside the woman's house etc., destroying her life to get a story.

EDIT: ^ the country isn't great. And at the end of any tenure there isn't normally the worst financial crash in 80 years. the financial crash happened on labour's watch; they didn't cause it, but they sure as heck didn't prevent it either. The FSA etc. should have been keeping a much closer eye on the ball, and if labour weren't so pally with the big guns in finance, industry etc., maybe they'd have stopped it. It didn't help that gordy claimed it was the end of boom and bust... irony alert. The argument that labour keeps bringing out that "nobody saw it coming" is offensive (I know for a fact that people saw it coming- I certainly did, and I read plenty of economists etc. who also said it was coming, and this was before the fact), as is the fact that they claimed it was unavoidable. Australia avoided it (as far as i'm aware). Most countries which didn't have a gigantic housing bubble avoided it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the tories would have done anything differently, so it's pretty rich for them to claim it's all labour's fault.

I really don't understand the logic in claiming to want labour out because of all it's done, and then thinking of voting for the tories who would have done everything labour did (they supported the war; are more in favour of business than labour is so there'd still have been a financial crash etc.), and probably a bunch of other cr@ppy things too.

lib dems were the only ones even slightly questioning the financial system. they were also against the war.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 01:13:37 PM by dave_mc »

Afghan Dave

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2010, 01:45:46 PM »
I'm a "classical liberal" and a pragmatist.

A Lib Dem vote is a wasted vote if you want change - that's the reality of the current system even if you don't like it.

If you want to vote Lib Dem in protest - great that's a fine and justifiable use of your political voice but you won't get change only a fleeting recognition.

The Economics are a reality and we have no money. Britain has been run into the ground by Labour and that's quantifiable.

Worse still the gap between rich and poor has greatly increased, so don't believe outdated ideas of Labour social values.

As for Cameron...

My enemy's enemy is my friend and I want Brown and THE LABOUR PARTY out.
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MrBump

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2010, 02:02:23 PM »
Do you honestly think that any UK government of any flavour could have prevented the current economic situation?

No.

We're a small country with a relatively loud voice, in an economic maelstrom dictated by China and the US.

Every developed economy is worse off.  Brown didn't cause that.

And a LibDem vote isn't a wasted vote, particularly if the resulting coalition puts forward a decent version of proportional representation, like most grown up economies have...

Ready, set, GO!

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MDV

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Re: Bigot!
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2010, 02:11:19 PM »
So, I dont really watch the news, for an assortment of excellent reasons, and the first I've heard of this is in this thread, but if I infer correctly -

Brown is wandering round having semi-staged conversations with labour supporters that are supposed to act as a platform for him to say things that make him/labour look good

One of them says something veiled or derogatory about immigrants?

Brown says later, in private, that that conversation didnt behoove the walkabout, since the individual was bigoted.

Press make big hoo hah.

My first question would then have to be

So what?