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Author Topic: I'm not sure when it happend...  (Read 6827 times)

MDV

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2010, 07:15:27 PM »
I dont dissagree on any particular point, and accept some corrections, but I suppose its a question of perspective, and its all relative.

The perspective, to me, is on the variation within blues and the amount that it can and does change/has changed both as a whole and if you take any given blues artists carreer, and compare that to one of the other major Churches of Guitar, like metal, rock, jazz etc.

I find it wanting in that regard. Certainly it *did* change, but how much? Compare Mayer to SRV; very, very similar to my ears. Maybe I'm missing something magical and ethereal (but, y'know what, maybe thats not there, maybe its hype, or beauty in the ear of the listener or whatever, but, carrying on) but they sound really similar to me.

Now compare, say, black sabbath with nile. OK, the latter is faster and heavier and whatever, thats not the point, its also far more catholic and far more sophisticated music. It has a clear mission statement (be $%&#ing heavy, same as sabbath) but is far more free within and around that mission, and includes from MANY other forms of music while still retaining its The Metal identity.

Or even one artist and another form of music: jazz and lenny breau, similar thing; he evolved and changed and experimented, and he didnt at any point sound like, say, joe pass or wes montgomery, who did much the same. These guys all also played music with much the same sort of genre identity, but diversified it and included in it from many other things.

Its the lack of variability that gets me. Its there, its just (relatively) tiny, and I dont understand why the genre is so constrained compared to other forms of guitar music, which are have all diversified and intermingled massively over the years.

Which isnt to say that the blues hasnt spread into other things, it just seems like there have been people trying to play some pure-bred Platonic Form of the blues for decades now, and it doesnt change or let anything else in.

AndyR

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2010, 08:32:33 PM »
Yeah, I'm with you on all of that MDV. (Although I don't really know much about Mayer - so I don't know whether he sounds like SRV, the clips I've seen on youtube seem to put him more in a Robert Cray area for me, not nearly so aggressive a player as SRV was...)

I suspect that what the problem is, is that if you "evolve" in any way from the 1,4,5 structure, then "the powers that be" (whoever they are!) say "well that's not blues, is it?"

I might be wrong, but for me it is - the blues was never meant to have any sort of rules on it. If you listen to really early stuff - it hasn't even got the 1,4,5 structure! :lol:

And Philly, yeah, I do like In Step, but it's not the SRV I fell for originally, and I do find it not terribly compelling (er... =boring but I don't want to say it :lol:)
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fbloke

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2010, 09:06:55 PM »
With blues it's all about hearing the character of the person playing.  Check out these characters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51fDIxxdqtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQMXvuhf6ic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdyvPg0c6bI

When you can play with this much soul it had better be simple or you're not going to get the message across.

gordiji

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2010, 09:30:19 PM »
great freddie king vid fbloke, what a band, the sum greater than the parts as it should be.

BigB

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2010, 10:25:46 PM »

What happens when you play the blues backwards?


The bank gives you your house back
Your dog comes back to life
Your wife comes back
You get your job back
Your car starts working again

Brillant ! MDV, you made my day  8)

Now about the part where you state that blues didn't evolve... Sure there are some "conservative purists" guys still trying to reproduce this overused overheard canonical 12 bar 1/4/5 stuff and pretending "this" is "The" blues - just like you have some jazz purists, 50s rock fanboys etc that only want to reproduce this old sound as exactly as possible. Now you also have Hendrix, the Groundhogs, Rory Gallagher and quite a few others that breaked out of this jail while still basically playing blues. And I really like to hear more of that kind of blues - I mean, not people trying to reproduce the above artists, but building something personal from the same material. FWIW the closest thing to a (post ?) modern blues band to me is early Sonic Youth - wild, noisy, emotional, out of control, and very inventive.

Sorry, not really a well formed, argumented POV but I'm just back from rehearsal, tired, half deaf, and starving... and my dinner is burning while I'm writing this, duh :(
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 10:55:25 PM by BigB »
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dave_mc

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2010, 10:47:14 PM »
I like some blues, other blues I can take or leave, some blues I don't wanna hear again.

that's the same with any music (for me, anyway). regarding the blues not changing, i know what you're saying, the purists (in anything) can be annoying, but at the same time if you like something, why change it? I mean, not everything has to be on the cutting edge to be enjoyable.

I'm just loving the fact that, for once, there's a thread with loads of gigantic posts and I only feel the need to post three lines.

Good times. :lol:
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 10:49:18 PM by dave_mc »

38thBeatle

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2010, 11:12:42 PM »
I enjoyed watching Freddie King as he is one of my all time favourites and to me, he is a distinctive player and that makes him great (imo). I was listening to a blues playlist t'other day that I'd created a few years back and had forgotten about and the thing that struck me then was that each player ( The 3 Kings, Muddy, SRV, Jimi ect) had something that, to me, set them apart from each other. Of course not everyone will like it and that is fine. There is something comforting about blues ( to me) but I know a young guy who is into "drum and bass" and he says more or less the same about that. Now I can't see that as being comforting but he does so each to his own.
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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2010, 01:19:13 AM »
Not alot to add to the chat  other than I agree with everything!

AndyR

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2010, 08:53:13 AM »
I'm just loving the fact that, for once, there's a thread with loads of gigantic posts and I only feel the need to post three lines.

Good times. :lol:

That really made me laugh - I know exactly what you mean. I don't know how I got drawn into writing the essays, but when I was halfway through I was thinking "why am I typing all this stuff? who the f cares?" :lol:

And you're right about this:

I like some blues music, other blues music I can take or leave, some blues music I don't wanna hear again.

Fixed!
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dave_mc

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2010, 11:09:09 AM »
^ haha. the internet's serious business (that's only half-sarcastic). :D

Ratrod

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2010, 11:27:54 AM »
I dig old black blues. It gets to me every time. Just one bar and the hairs on my back stand up. Just a few white guys can do it. Gallagher, Billy Gibbons, Fogherty,  and the odd Beatles, Animals and Stones tunes.

When Clapton plays the blues, it doesn't come over to me as real.
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MDV

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Re: I'm not sure when it happend...
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2010, 03:57:49 PM »
I'm just loving the fact that, for once, there's a thread with loads of gigantic posts and I only feel the need to post three lines.

Good times. :lol:

That really made me laugh - I know exactly what you mean. I don't know how I got drawn into writing the essays, but when I was halfway through I was thinking "why am I typing all this stuff? who the f cares?" :lol:

And you're right about this:

I like some blues music, other blues music I can take or leave, some blues music I don't wanna hear again.

Fixed!


Indeed. But I start typing, and then I dont bloody stop!