Bring Me The Horizon...

[nfe]

Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.

Yeah. These folks irk me something rotten. Everything is progressive/technical/polyrhythmic when they mean, there are some sweeps and we all really, really want to suck of Meshuggah. Recently someone described a band as New Wave of British Progressive Metal and I near pissed myself.

[WezV]

I hope so, hehe. Their tattoos are truly awful. It's like they wandered into the cheapest parlour in Backwatersville and chose everything on the generic design sheets and said "Give me all of them, really close together, up to my chin!"

i had to google the fella, but i would say the tattoo's are not badly done but badly chosen and positioned.  but then i do love tradtional tattoo designs, even though i have so far avoided them for myself i still go for the boldness of that style

[MDV]

Then there's the kids who play 'technical' metal, who just throw together random notes with a little bit of a chug so they sound 'progressive' and 'interesting'. Where the songs have no choruses (don't get me wrong I lik unconventional song structures as much as anyone else BUT, does it have to be in EVERY. $%&#ING. SONG?!), the kick drums sound like a typewriter, guitars are ridiculously processed and the whole band are trying in vain to sound 'heavy' and br00talz'.

Yeah. These folks irk me something rotten. Everything is progressive/technical/polyrhythmic when they mean, there are some sweeps and we all really, really want to suck of Meshuggah. Recently someone described a band as New Wave of British Progressive Metal and I near pissed myself.

Edit - I believe thats nolly from red seas fire. Talented chap to be sure, but I share the sentiment.

Its a fine line, though.

I enjoy a lot of metal thats technical. I'm not sure what 'technical _whatever_ metal' is, nor 'progressive' (progressing toward what? The 70s?) but there are many bands around that I call Try Too Hard Core. I cant really pin down what it is about the music that crosses over from metal thats technical and rightly $%&#ing so to what sounds like whiny little brats trying to compensate for some inadequacy, but here are some examples.

Metal thats technical and rightly $%&#ing so. Makes my head spin and I want to run round the walls listening to it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIMW0aHN0ks

Try Too Hardcore. Bores the shitee out of me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OspGO0YVeRI

[Lew]

I really like 'Fortress' by Protest The Hero and I think it lives on that 'fine line'. For me nobody comes close to Devin Townsend. Especially from a production point of view - there's nobody is in the same galaxy. If technique is being used for any other reason than to serve the execution of something it usually ends up shiteeee imo.

Mark, the band in that first youtube link just sound like a joke to me, the singing is just comedic I don't find anything in it that should be taken seriously, am I wrong? I mean.. I've recorded screaming before and I'm genuinely aware of the skill and technique that goes into it but, still... ! I think that's why I love Devin, his voice is perfect. Probably why I like PTH, too.

[Dmoney]

Origin - i like the comment 'real death metal'... i though Obituary was death metal? that doesnt sound like Obituary to me!

as far as BMTH goes, they have had people hating em since day one. I dislike other bands way more than i dislike them. they ain't even on my radar.

[MDV]

To be frank, due to my trytoohardcore radar kicking in pretty quickly I struggled to think of one of the hundreds of bands that fall into it, and BTBAM, while far from the worst, were the best I could remember the name of.

I quite like Kezia, which I think was very much metal that happened to be technical, and sounded right like that. Fortress crossed into try too hardcore, for my tastes. If theres to be technicality (whatever that is, I'm sure we all have some vague impression of odd meters and various lead techniques being laced into chugging riffs) then I feel, very strongly as it happens, that it should be a natural part of the flow, vibe and progression of a song. I thought kezia did that just fine and fortress crossed over into making things needlessly complex at the expense of the songs.

Origin are $%&#ing awesome though. The James Lee is one of the few extreme vocalists I can stomach, even like, as it happens. Hes been replaced with the guy from the faceless, who I dont think has nearly the tone and hardly the tiniest fraction of the rhythmic cleverness that Lee has, so for the first time I'm quite trepident about Origins next album.

I'm not interested personally in what is or isnt 'real death metal' so I would say dont worry about it! I dont really care for any but the widest genre distinctions. Rock, blues, metal, jazz, country etc. Its just 'metal' to me. As are BTBAM and BMTH. You can keep dividing it all up into smaller and smaller boxes ad infinitum and it doesnt enhance any appreciation (or otherwise) of the music, so it seems pointless to me.

I may have to appropriate this for the above

"To avoid confusion, please assume all words above are jovial and follow the prefix "In my opinion"."

[adamj]

BMTH wierdly have a new album coming out soon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ39Nz9TmCI

thats alll i can find about it though. I bet thats gonna sound even better. The guitar sound through the whole of "count your blessings" was HORRIBLE

My band supported BMTH n liverpool once, by then their first ful length had come out and they were living up the hype. They locked themselves away from the other bands and didnt even acknowledge us, so they didnt seem to be the friendliest bunch. The show was decent tho, if u like that sort of thing

[Nadz1lla]

Coming away from BMTH now, and more regarding the tech stuff, I really don't think there's anything wrong with really pushing musicianship to the extremes of the musician's ability. Being able to perform that stuff live is an art form, having to remember time changes as well as all that technical playing (which, in order to sound good, needs to be very cleanly played).

I envy anyone who can do this for one song, let alone an entire gig.

So, if you were going to name this genre of music, what would you call it? And be objective here, put your personal feelings about it aside. I can't really think of anything other than "Technical" or "Progressive", because to be honest, it doesn't get more technical than that.  :?

[MDV]

Oh, hell no theres nothing wrong with it, its part and parcel of music, where appropriate. I just dislike it when technicality is force-fit and doesnt serve the music.

I dont feel the need to make a distinction between 'technical' and not (any more; I have in the past, but I changed my mind). Its not like some magic line is crossed where it has to have some prefix or seperate designation to denote that its hard to play. Its all music, and demarkation of 'hard to play' from 'not hard to play' is irrelevent, ambiguous and a frankly musically bankrupt thing to do. Is paganini 'technical classical'? Al dimeola 'technical jazz'? No.

Theres no reason to make the distinction other than some misplaced bravado or ego in labelling your stuff basically 'hard, n00bs, we haz skillz and cant not use dem'.

Progressive is another matter. I really genuinely have no idea what its supposed to mean, and would like someone that indulges in it to give a clear definition.

[Dmoney]

its like art.
taking ages to paint something so well that it looks like a photo is technically great but it doesn't mean its good art.
at the same time, putting a urinal on a plinth can blow peoples minds.

[Nadz1lla]

I think that's a very good analogy.  :)

[MDV]

it IS art!

[Roobubba]

Maybe I'm speaking out of line here, but all I seem to hear from people who like heavy music is how such-and-such a genre (where these distinctions come from, I neither know nor care) is cr@p and unlistenable, and how the only worthwhile X-form of metal is such-and-such a band.

Now don't get me wrong, people here are so much more educated than that, I'm speaking from my experiences of talking to people in the pub or parties. I remember this conversation with one guy who was telling me how he loved heavy music, then I told him about our upcoming gig, and he wanted to know what the vocals were like, because if it wasn't in some very tight range of categories, he'd hate it and we were just another shite band.

Honestly, I have no idea how to classify 13Gauge. Maybe we're trying too hard for Mark, maybe we're not death metal enough for Nadz, or punky enough for Dmoney. You can really worry too much about this if you listen to what people say on forums or in the pub. Frankly, I'd rather get out there and play the music I like to play with mates who share similar musical goals and ideals. If we're liked, we're liked; if we're not, then you can all f*** off. :)

I guess the crux of what I'm trying to say is that there seem to be so many more haters within the 'heavy music' scene than any other genre I know. It's - quite frankly - soul destroying for someone who wants to promote their band and put music out there.

Roo

[bucketshred]

While I agree with you completely with this one, I don't think ANY of us here have said that they are only into one type of metal.

In terms of Metal, I love bands ranging from Iron Maiden, Entombed, Avenged Sevenfold (before they turned into Guns & Roses), Cathedral, Dillinger Escape Plan, Black Breath, Black Sabbath, Mastodon, Protest the Hero, Sunn 0))) (if you want to call it metal), Suffocation, Annotations of an Autopsy and a million and one other bands. the rest of my music collection is made up of a whole range of other stuff. I just like music. Pure, honest music. Just not stuff designed to sell to the kids.

And for people who say that they HATE a certain band or music (such as Limp Bizkit), you liars. Tell me you've never gotten drunk and had a good bounce around to 'Break Stuff' in your local rock club :D

Paddy

[Dmoney]

it IS art!

Obviously. i should have said "other forms of text created on the understanding that they be part of another form art". 
I wouldnt say everything music has artistic merit. just like I wouldnt say every doodle has artistic merit either.
i know what im getting at... in my own head. agreed though.