Help me compare the Holy Diver and Black Dog

[sixgunsovertombstone]

Im trying to decide what would be better for me, the Holy Diver or the Black Dog, but I'm mostly curious about the output regarding the two.

On the sound clips on the new site, the Black Dog, to me, sounds louder/more output/hotter than the Holy Divers. But the Holy Divers are in the Contemporary range, with significantly higher DC resistance than the Black Dogs in the Vintage Hot line... even if DC resistance is just a ballpark figure. I am comparing mostly the Modern Metal Clip, but also the cleans seem to have the same effect.

I really dig the sound of the black dogs from the clips, but am wondering if maybe the volume/gain may have been bumped up for the vintage/vintage hot lines? Also, would the Black Dog complement a maple neck through with mahogany wings?

Thanks

[kevinr]

I have them both, and can say that the HD is indeed stronger/fatter! both great pups maybe the HD is more suited to your maple through neck!

[Nolly]

For the clips on the site the settings were kept identical between all the different pickups so that people can make valid comparisons.

In terms of actual pure loudness, there is going to be very little difference between any of the humbuckers, but what you will find is the hotter pickups are much more dynamically compressed. When played side by side the lower output models can often seem punchier and "hotter" as a result of this, and I think that's what you're hearing here.

[sixgunsovertombstone]

I see! thanks guys.

Kevinr, Which do you like better? im looking for a really nice, fat, thick rock/metal tone. A really juicy and warm rhythm tone. Both pickups have an eq spread im looking for... I just dont know which is better for me. I'm a fairly dynamic player, so I like the idea of the Black dogs being less compressed, but maybe the Holy divers are better for the added beef?

[kevinr]

I prefer the HDs! they sound great through a Marshall or Mesa, the neck pup is very colourful and rich, it and the VHII are my pick of neck pups, however I still think that the BD is excellent!
Tell us more about your gear!

[sixgunsovertombstone]

Well... My main axe is an ltd M1000 from 2005, so it has a proper neck through and OFR vs the newer versions. I recently put some Ceramic Nailbombs in it and it is a metal machine sent from Heaven!... or Hell if im playing slayer... And that goes into an eleven rack for fx and then into a peavey JSX head and cab. Im really happy with my tone from that, though I'm looking for something a little warmer, less aggressive, and fatter. I think this will come from an Alnico V magnet, but I'm torn as to which pickups I should get for my next guitar, an esp NT-II.

I like the nailbombs, and was thinking about the alnico version, which I might get later on down the road for a shred guitar of mine (an edwards KL-170, really cool guitar... google it! its like a caparison), but I want to explore the BKP line a little more, and to my ears, the Black Dog clips sound the best. They also seem extremely versatile, living in the vintage hot range, and i like the cleans. Mostly im looking for something that has a really nice rhythm sound, as this guitar will be my recording and session guitar. I do session work on the side sometimes, and will be playing anything form church hymns to downtuned black metal on it (the esp NT-II).

Writing this reply has made me realize that I have a high output monster in the ceramic Nailbombs already, so maybe the Black Dogs would be the best after all.

[ericsabbath]

if you also play lots of leads, I'd say diver

[Modular1]

well for me Holy Divers are the perfect black metal pick up. they sound great clean too.

[sixgunsovertombstone]

Well i would be doing some leads, buy my guitar with the ceramic nailbombs is more my lead axe. I want a good rhythm tone out of them.

[Madsakre]

Im trying to decide what would be better for me, the Holy Diver or the Black Dog, but I'm mostly curious about the output regarding the two.

On the sound clips on the new site, the Black Dog, to me, sounds louder/more output/hotter than the Holy Divers. But the Holy Divers are in the Contemporary range, with significantly higher DC resistance than the Black Dogs in the Vintage Hot line... even if DC resistance is just a ballpark figure. I am comparing mostly the Modern Metal Clip, but also the cleans seem to have the same effect.

I really dig the sound of the black dogs from the clips, but am wondering if maybe the volume/gain may have been bumped up for the vintage/vintage hot lines? Also, would the Black Dog complement a maple neck through with mahogany wings?

Thanks

Dc resistance tells nothing about how hot a pickup is. you can use dc resistance as a rule of thump on how many windings theres in the pickup. Since most pickups have the same size, then higher dc resistance usually means thinner wire.

Dc resistance is also useable if you're gonna throw it into a guitar with another kind of pickup in it. The pickup with the lower dc resistance will usually drain the tone from the high dc one.

[Alex]

I really cannot compare the output very well, because my HD is in a baritone with much thicker strings, giving it a lot of drive. It did feel slightly less hot than the SD JB though.

Both are somewhat similar in tone, the different is mostly that the HD sounds more like 80s rock/metal with the typical upper mid range and more compression going on. The BD's I feel accentuates the guitar's lower mids a bit and is somewhat clearer overall, as it does not saturate as quickly. I have them both in mahogany guitars, so I can't comment much on what they would fit, but I think many people use the HD with swampash/basswood bodies & strat style guitars and like it a lot, whereas the BD seems to fit very well into set-neck mahogany guitars, so depending on your guitar that might give you the nod.

If you use a booster pedal - most do anyway - the output issue will be neglectable.

[darkbluemurder]

Also, would the Black Dog complement a maple neck through with mahogany wings?

As you can see from my signature I have experience with the HD but not the BD. The guitars I have them in are quite different (PRS Custom, Charvel-like Partscaster with alder body and maple/rosewood neck) but it works well in either. It has strong output but is definitely not a distortion pickup which is a good thing to me. It has a bit less output than either the PRS HFS or the DiMarzio Breed which were in those guitars before.

I believe the HD would compliment a maple neck through with mahogany wings very well.

[darkbluemurder]

im looking for a really nice, fat, thick rock/metal tone. A really juicy and warm rhythm tone.

As said, HD will fit the bill.

Cheers Stephan

[Harold]

*Bump*

I used to have the Black Dog in the bridge of my SG, but I ditched it for an old (70/80's) Dimarzio Super Distortion because the BD was a bit too harsh for my SG.

The old Super Distortion isn't waxpotted properly so I now have a lot of unwanted squeels on stage so I'm looking for a new BKP ;)


How is the Holy Driver -vs- Black Dog -vs- (old) Super Distortion?


_{PS: I installed the Black Dog in an 80's Yamaha SG1000 and thats a much better match than with my Gibson SG!}

[Alex]

The BD is much clearer than the Super Distortion. I had the Super a long time ago in a LP copy and it does that highly compressed, thick midrange sound that drives the preamp of amps a lot. Nowadays, i.e. 20 years later, that is not really necessary IMO. Especially the Black Dogs top end is very clear even with gain; it's hard to describe that tone, but I just love that about the pickup. A very "ballsy" tone IMO.

The BD, I must say, is my all-time favorite Bareknuckle pickup. In my opinions it is almost the perfect "can do all" pickup.