Pickups to replace EMG81/85 set - Hard Rock / Modern Metal tone

[Cboysen]

Oh thanks for the insight, i'll definitely look into the miracle man then - What kind of tone did you achieve with the combination of MM and CS?

[Slartibartfarst42]

I dare say it's not the same as living with a guitar but in my short tries on the guitar it seemed to me that the Zak Wylde tag was entirely suitable. It did that kind of tone really well but it retained an organic quality that I never really associate with active pickups. It was quite warm compared to actives but at the same time it was clearly modern in tone and could really cut through. The EQ chart on the website suggests it's mid-scooped and maybe that's why it works so well with naturally middy maple neck-thrus. It sounded a really well balanced pickup in that guitar. Pinched harmonics were fantastic and the cleans were OK but a bit limited, probably by the ceramic magnet.

The Cold Sweat in the neck position had tremendous clarity. I was trying to get a Dave Murray tone out of it but never quite managed it as I always found it a bit too cutting for that but it had a tremendous tone in its own right and that creamy Dave Murray tone may well still be possible with more time to tweak the settings.

[Cboysen]

Okay thanks, well worth considering. I see your jackson soloist got holydiver in it instead, - the soloist got a rather modern feel to it by nature, so what made you choose that pickup over say nailbomb, painkiller, warpig, MM etc - Or did you buy it this way?
Just curious :)

thanks

[Slartibartfarst42]

Originally the Jackson came stock, so it had a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and Hotrails for the middle and neck. The JB was a pretty good pickup but the Hotrails I didn't like at all. At first I went for an Alnico Nailbomb in the bridge but that just wasn't right at all. I posted an extensive review of the Nailbomb so I won't bore you with the details now but here's a link if you're curious:

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24270.0

I've had ceramic pickups before and tried them in other people's guitars and they're great at what they do but I wanted something that was warmer, more organic and more fat and fluid than ceramics tend to be this time. An alnico magnet seemed to be the way to go. I liked the Miracle Man in the neck-thru I tried but I wanted something that had a bit more of an 80s tone and the MM has a far more modern voice. I know a Soloist has a modern shred feel to it but I'm in no way a shredder so I realise that me owning this guitar is a bit of an oxymoron but I like 24 frets, double cut, neck-thru guitars with a locking trem and in truth, that specification severely limits your options. As my style owes a lot to Blues and late 70s/early 80s Rock/Metal I sometimes feel a little like Albert King playing a Flying V!

I play in a Rock covers band so it's 80s Metal, Hard Rock and some more modern songs as well. The Heaviest thing we do is Metallica and Disturbed and at the opposite end of the spectrum it's bands like Feeder, The Animals, Semisonic and Kasabian. The Nailbomb was far too aggressive for that and the MM has too modern a voice. I also felt that the MM wouldn't have the versatility to cover the styles I was after and the same could be said of the Warpig. Given all I've said, the Painkiller was never going to work and the one time I tried one, I just didn't like it. I was originally sorely tempted by the Holydiver but went for the Nailbomb because it's supposed to be so versatile, which it is in a way but it always seems to retain this 90s Metal edginess that I just didn't like. Once I realised that the NB was wrong, the HD was the obvious choice. I thought that for the genres you mention the HD would suit you too but your reference to EMG contradicts that and screams out MM instead. I've never really liked active EMG pups because I find them too sterile. The MM has all of the advantages of an EMG in my opinion while retaining a more organic feel to it but like an EMG, it's not super versatile and the cleans are ok rather than good. I'll be posting a detailed review of the HD too if you're interested but I only had the pickup installed last night so it looks like its first run out will be band practice this afternoon  :D

For great neck lead tones btw, I believe the Holydiver is also superb, though I've never tried one myself. That may be worth considering too so hopefully someone with experience of the neck HD will comment.

[Transcend]

Just to add this in.

The miracle man is actually a lot more versatile than people think.

The only thing that limits it is the clean sounds which are very specific.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Just to add this in.

The miracle man is actually a lot more versatile than people think.

The only thing that limits it is the clean sounds which are very specific.

I wouldn't argue with that at all. My impression was that it was far more than a one trick pony but there were probably other pickups were ultimately more versatile. Cleans were a bit sterile but I imagine that most people with a MM probably aren't using cleans all that much  8)

[ShredHeadJHJ]

I have Miracle Man's in my basswood Suhr and they are indeed great pick ups. They retain metal style dynamics very well, although I wouldn't say they were necessarily organic or versatile. Unfortunately they don't split well... That being said they are indeed amazing metal pups. They do have "somewhat" of a similar character to an EMG 81/85 set, although they are much rounder in a sense. THEY HAVE THE GOOD QUALITIES OF THE 81/85. The treble is not so overly pronounced and the bass is tight, big, and smoother.

[Cboysen]

Oh thanks for the really detailed reply, much appreciated - I did read your post / thread, even before making my own post, and really it's a right insight you got. About pickups, I'm extremely torn.. usually I will never buy anything before having it tried for years in the shop etc, but this time I have to take leap of faith, and just go with what feels right. I'm not AT ALL an 80'ies hairy metal guy, but that doesn't mean I don't like the tone sometimes, especially those who can dial their JCM800 together with X other amp and get incredible stuff, that just slays most modern lead tone, but from a rhythm point, it's not for me. My main tone is not clean, it probably never will be -  But I do use them. My band usually goes with the intro and the bridge as some sort of clean sound, but other than that it's pretty much Hard Rock / (insert whatever subgenre) Metal, so of course it would be amazing to half great cleans, but now it's more of a question of having cleans that you dare presenting to an audience. The MM does seem to be the one I'm going for, but nothing is at all settled - As I said, I don't like options that I can't clarify or rule out, so before I go with anything, I'm gonna make sure I'm an expert on pickups ;) It's the first time i change something from stock, except string gauge :) Anyway.. 

[Cboysen]

I have Miracle Man's in my basswood Suhr and they are indeed great pick ups. They retain metal style dynamics very well, although I wouldn't say they were necessarily organic or versatile. Unfortunately they don't split well... That being said they are indeed amazing metal pups. They do have "somewhat" of a similar character to an EMG 81/85 set, although they are much rounder in a sense. THEY HAVE THE GOOD QUALITIES OF THE 81/85. The treble is not so overly pronounced and the bass is tight, big, and smoother.

Hmm.. now I see both the good and bad in that  - the fact that miracle mans work great in your basswood, is only for my satisfaction since I can only assume that they will work similarly well in my guitar, although it's maple neck, that should just get it a bit rounder, but a little more trebly too I guess. About the treble of the EMG themselves, I tend to think that it got great highs, just enough, the 85 in the neck position lacks trebly, which makes it a great solo/lead thing when equipped with some reverb/delay, so when you say it's not so overly pronounced, I dunno whether thats a good or a bad thing. I'm aware that there are more organic and versatile pickups than the MM, that being said, I'm quite sure a lot of it is in your fingers, but enough about that. Organic or not, what I mean is that I just want the ability to turn down the volume knob and indeed round off the gain to some good cleans or crunches, instead of just lowering the volume of the guitar like you more or less do with the EMGs.

But take it that you have tried it and compared it against the EMGs and like the result, that's only very positive.

kind regards

[ShredHeadJHJ]

The MM's are a hell of a lot better than the EMG's, trust me.

[Cboysen]

The MM's are a hell of a lot better than the EMG's, trust me.

Okay :) Will do then. So you say - if I like the EMG81/85 set, I'll be totally hyped about the MM/CS combo :)?

[Transcend]

Definitely.

Its like EMGs without the bad points.

[Cboysen]

Well thats promising, now the only question is - Is it worth the  Ł300 for buying,shipping, installing :)? I know that's not really a question that got any answer, but it's like when I considered changing the stock tubes of my 6505+, only to figure out it was equipped with something pretty decent - enough that I possibly wouldn't hear a difference. As I said, I havent changed pickups before, so the actual difference in sound is only what I've read from stuff on the internet (unreliable to the teeth! ;)) and not experienced first-hand.

[Kiichi]

Well thats promising, now the only question is - Is it worth the  Ł300 for buying,shipping, installing :)? I know that's not really a question that got any answer, but it's like when I considered changing the stock tubes of my 6505+, only to figure out it was equipped with something pretty decent - enough that I possibly wouldn't hear a difference. As I said, I havent changed pickups before, so the actual difference in sound is only what I've read from stuff on the internet (unreliable to the teeth! ;)) and not experienced first-hand.

Have only changed PUs twice (and cause you mentioned it several tubes) and althoug the PU changes were big changes (not similar models) there was a big difference. Tubes too.
I can basecally garantee you that you will notice a difference in not only sound but also feel and response.
I can not garantee that youŽll like the new things, but they will be different.

But judging from the comments here youŽll probably love them too^^

[kmanick]

I've had several Ibanez 7620's that I put MM's into the bridge and absolutely love them (I currently still have one)
In basswood (anyway) describing the MM as a more open organic EMG 707 is a dead on description.
lots of low mids (I have a 5150 II so I know what kind of tone you are going to get).
the thing I like about the MM is that it sounds nice and tight for rhythm playing (like an EMG) but the lead tone is much sweeter.
It's the only Ceramic BK bridge pickup I've gotten along with.
the other thing that's kind of cool about the MM is that is just "drinks up gain" it doesn't fizz out it just gets thicker sounding.
I've also had the Alnico Nailbomb (which I also loved) in a Carvin DC 727.
tone differences thru a 5150 II
MM -think more of a Nevermore "Dead heart in a dead World" tone
NailBomb-- think more of an Arch Enemy type of tone (alot more upper mid emphasis)
both work great just depends what you're after.