Multi effects

[Telerocker]

They do fine with a lot of distortion or superclean. They just don't crunch in the way a decent valveamp does. What I found is that the ''breakup-sounds'' were not really happening. For highgain-applications they're ok. If that is wat you're after, a floorunit would be a solution.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Then I assume that makes the 4CM all the more important so I have the option of using my own amp with a light overdrive.

[Alex]

I've had only not very successful stints with multieffects (Zoom, Line6 and Boss). I steer clear from them nowadays, as I feel you always spend time trying to dial in the natural feel you know from tube amps, constantly making small changes. I also always felt that when you finally got a good patch in one room, you went to a different room and everything sounded wrong again.

Personally, I have gotten a lot more mileage out of my old JCM900 combo by exchanging the speakers. It really opened up a new world to me. Frankly, the speakers in the 1960A are.... not very desirable. Chances are the DSL401 combo could benefit from a speaker change.

[Spitfire]

i recommend something similar to my setup...

I have a 2 channel amp and a tc electronic g-major for all those fx loop effects.. modulations, reverbs, delays etc etc.. the g-major has a relay to switch the amp chan so you set each patch with an amp channel then just switch it all with a single midi foot controller.. very simple and easy.

[Johnny Mac]

i recommend something similar to my setup...

I have a 2 channel amp and a tc electronic g-major for all those fx loop effects.. modulations, reverbs, delays etc etc.. the g-major has a relay to switch the amp chan so you set each patch with an amp channel then just switch it all with a single midi foot controller.. very simple and easy.

Will that still work on a non midi amp?

[Slartibartfarst42]

Well, it was a nice idea but it seems that it won't work. Lots of people tell me they're fantastic units and they certainly sound good but a chorus of support is not as forthcoming when I ask about playing gigs so I'm inclined to think Alex and Telerocker are right in that it may be more convenient, but will ultimately be frustrating and get lost in the mix live. I was talking to the luthier I use last night and he said exactly the same, pointing out that in his opinion they're simply over-processed and that's why they start to get lost as the volume and space increases. So it looks like I'm back to my original plan of a Marshall JVM. I was thinking that perhaps a 2X12 combo might be the answer but I'm not so sure. Using a head and 4X12 takes up the same floor space as a 2X12 combo; it's just taller and even if I didn't use a 4X12, a head unit and 2X12 cab is going to be easier to carry than a 2X12 combo.

Another reason I was put off the JVM410H was simply the power as the room I practice in is tiny but from what I can gather, the 50w version will be pretty much just as loud anyway but with less headroom and if I go 50w, it has to be the 2 channel version. It's a couple of hundred cheaper used but perhaps the extra couple of channels on the 100w is worth the extra for the greater flexibility. So many choices! Who'd be a guitarist  :roll: 8)

[Spitfire]

i recommend something similar to my setup...

I have a 2 channel amp and a tc electronic g-major for all those fx loop effects.. modulations, reverbs, delays etc etc.. the g-major has a relay to switch the amp chan so you set each patch with an amp channel then just switch it all with a single midi foot controller.. very simple and easy.

Will that still work on a non midi amp?

my amps not a midi amp. the g-major has a relay built in that you plug into your pedal in on the amp and then the g-major controls the amp's channel

[Transcend]

There is not much volume difference between  a 50 & 100w valve amp

However in the case of the JVM i have found the 205h has a lot more bite & aggression to the sound while the 100w sounds rounder but still great.

If you really need 3 channels & something thats portable, can be used at home volume levels, small practice rooms & gigs from small to big without being too loud i have a TSL in the seconds out that i could do a deal on for you!

/shameless plug

[Alex]

Well, it was a nice idea but it seems that it won't work. Lots of people tell me they're fantastic units and they certainly sound good but a chorus of support is not as forthcoming when I ask about playing gigs so I'm inclined to think Alex and Telerocker are right in that it may be more convenient, but will ultimately be frustrating and get lost in the mix live. I was talking to the luthier I use last night and he said exactly the same, pointing out that in his opinion they're simply over-processed and that's why they start to get lost as the volume and space increases. So it looks like I'm back to my original plan of a Marshall JVM. I was thinking that perhaps a 2X12 combo might be the answer but I'm not so sure. Using a head and 4X12 takes up the same floor space as a 2X12 combo; it's just taller and even if I didn't use a 4X12, a head unit and 2X12 cab is going to be easier to carry than a 2X12 combo.

Another reason I was put off the JVM410H was simply the power as the room I practice in is tiny but from what I can gather, the 50w version will be pretty much just as loud anyway but with less headroom and if I go 50w, it has to be the 2 channel version. It's a couple of hundred cheaper used but perhaps the extra couple of channels on the 100w is worth the extra for the greater flexibility. So many choices! Who'd be a guitarist  :roll: 8)

Two things:

First, if you get a 2x12, it MUST be somehow vertical or raised. Your ears are on your head, not your legs! It can make a huge difference in how you hear the sound. Unfortunately, most 2x12" tend to be wide but low, only ENGL makes a vertical one (which is great, btw, but very heavy). 4x12" have the benefit of the two top speakers which project better.

Second, don't worry too much about headroom on a 50-Watt amp. Having had both a 50-Watt JCM900 and a 120 Watt 5150 the differences IMO don't come into play a lot unless you use a seriously downtuned guitar or play very loud. There is some difference, but I personally would rather save the money. I also think - if I remember correctly - that that JVM205 footswitch is programmable and lets you save more than two sounds even on the 2-channel version, making it something like a 2+ channel amp, but I'm not sure about that.

[asianaxeman]

yeah it's footswitch has 4 presets for 4 sounds. But the clean and crunch have shared gain and EQ. I have a 215C which sounds great through an engl cab but the only great sounding channel are the crunch yellow and red so it's really difficult to get a great crunch sound and have a good clean as well, on this matter the 410H offers more flexibility because clean and crunch are separate channels with separate EQ. But if you're after the zakk sound for instance and you don't want an expensive jcm800 reissue then boost the crunch red and it sounds awesome. As someone said above, midi or relay switching with the gmajor is a great idea. I would def go for 50w as opposed to 100w versions- more economical valve maintenance in the long run.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Well, I decided it made sense to get the amp sorted out first as that's obviously the heart of the rig. Ideally I'd like a combo that I can then hook up to my 4X12 for larger gigs but most amps on Ebay that seem to appeal are head units and some of them I have no chance to try before the auction ends so I wondered if there was any wisdom here. Here's what I'm looking at so far:

Marshall DSL50
Heard some great things about these in terms of sounds, though sadly this is a head unit. Not the end of the world though. My real concern is that there will be a lag when switching channels like I have on my DSL401 and that's really a pain. They seem to be about £350 - 400

Marshall TSL
I can get one of these either as a combo or head. The combo is £350 and the 100w head is surprisingly cheaper. My concerns are the same as on the DSL with latency issues on the footswitch.

Laney VH100R
A lot of people seem to love these and at £400 it doesn't seem badly priced. Wish they did a combo version.

H & K Switchblade
Really confused about this one. In many ways it's absolutely perfect. It's not ridiculously powerful at 50w, it's a combo, it has 4 channels that seem to cover everything, it has a footswitch that stores everything and it even has effects onboard so I can ditch a few pedals. Hell, with this thing and just a couple of pedals I could forget about multi-effects altogether! The feedback at Harmony Central is excellent and it doesn't seem expensive at a starting price of £450 yet I am still confused. Why? Because searching this forum seemed to bring up a lot of hate towards it and that has made me stop and think.

Engl Thunder 50 Reverb
Looks really nice. Obviously does the heavy stuff well and with 4 channels I imagine it does most other things OK too.

Anyway, there's the choices. Any thoughts?

[Telerocker]

They are (near) all different animals. Personally I favour the DSL over the TSL (and the Engl and Laney). But when it comes to versality and good sounds, the Switchblade is hard to beat.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Now there's a surprise as I read so many negative comments about the Switchblade on here I didn't think anyone would be supporting it. The clips online sound OK to me, though the Engl sounds a lot better. You Tube can be very misleading of course. Both of those appeal because they're combos and I've had so much bad luck keeping a band together I can't help thinking that if this one also folds, a head unit will be useless to me. My other main concern with an amp is will I be able to boost it for solos? This is a concern due to my experiences with my DSL401 as if I use the drive channel, orange or red mode, with the gain set to about 6, the boost pedal I have in the loop has absolutely no effect at all and as a result I have to use a Hardwire distortion pedal through the clean channel for all of my distorted tones. Doing it this way the boost works beautifully. I really want to stop having to do this.

As a result of all this I'd really rather go with a combo if I can and I keep getting drawn to things with two footswitchable master volumes but that's not easy on an affordable combo. I know the DSL is great but it's a pain that it's a head unit and the latency on the channel switching would drive me insane. I love the sound of the Engl but it's a hell of a distance to drive to get it as it's in Brighton and I wonder if I'd be better being patient and waiting for a Screamer to come up. The H & K appeals for its versatility, though I understand the footswitch is fragile so at some point I may need to invest in a different midi controller. I have no idea about such things so I don't know what would be compatible or how much they cost.

[Telerocker]

I don't know about footswitch-problems. Test the amp somewhere, then you'll know if you really like it. I heard so many players getting bad sounds out of nice amps. Youtube is not a referencepoint.

[Alex]

The DSL and TSL don't hold a candle to the JVM IMO. The TSL's suckiness is the reason I stuck with a JCM900 for years and then got a 5150.

The VH100R is the amp I wanted to buy first, but then I played the 5150 and liked that one (a lot) more.

I don't know the ENGL or the H&K you posted.