What HB for my Love Rock...

[Blackcaster]

Hi All !
New here, after a lot of readings in this huge place it's time to ask you some advices about my new project.
I've recently acquired a splendid Tokai Love Rock (from 1995). She's one piece solid mahogany back, one piece deep jointed mahogany glued neck and carved flame mapple top. Loaded with gotoh custom PAF (7.17/10.96).
A very inspirating LP style guitar, she remember me my beloved Gibson custom LP ala Al Di Meola (1978) stolen long time ago.
Reason why I turned to Fender Strats, all axes loaded with Tim's single coils. I'm playing good ol' school rock, and now more modern songs with my cover band.

So Gents, what is your opinion for HB replacement? I plug my guitars straight into a SL 2203 MV (1977), only two effects delay and chorus.

My first choice was Aftermath, by now I'm sharing some doubt about it, perhaps too much signal output level. And as I love A5 magnet, maybe it would be better choice for VH2 humbuckers...  :roll:

Thanks guys !
B.
 
   

[Telerocker]

Hi and welcome! VHII's will provided wicked rocktones. Pinched harmonics jump out. I'm about to order one for my HSS-strat. If you want more of an '59 classic Gibson PAF-tone, look at Mules.

[Nolly]

VHIIs would be great, but there's nothing a Les Paul with a Riff Raff bridge and a Mule neck can't do.

[Blackcaster]

kewl to meet you Telerocker and Nolly 

I've experienced The Mule with a LP Studio (1994), I've sold the guitar because the neck wasn't right for me. Anyway you're right on this, Mule are really made for classic tones... VHII and Riff Raff seem to be brighter.
b.

[Blackcaster]

Hey Nolly, I listen Recovery (Demo).. that's rock man, sound killer  8)
Are you using the Riff Raff/Mule combo ?
b.

[Nolly]

Thanks mate :)
No, that is a Cold Sweat set in a mahogany superstrat. However the Cold Sweat set would be well worth your consideration if you want something a bit more modern. Don't be scared off by the ceramic bridge - it's very clear and open sounding, and in a LP there's no lack of warmth or midrange, just excellent crunch.

[Kiichi]

Now, I am no Nolly, but my guess would have been Mules, perhaps Alnico V Mules. There you get your classic rock sounds, and how you get them man, plut the versatility to play clean too or even metal distorted. To support the later and get them a little more bite (bit more aftermath direction) get them with Alnico V Magnets.

[Philly Q]

I think the truth is you can put any BKP humbuckers in a decent LP and get some great sounds.

If you don't want anything too hot, you could be looking at anything from Mules to Crawlers - the question then is do you want bright or dark, and do you lean more towards the vintage tones or more towards modern?

[Nolly]

Seems like there's lots of people discussing magnet-swapped Mules at the moment, just to explain - the Vintage range are all very closely related, essentially just subtly different flavours of the PAF sound. In each case the wind is optimised to work with the magnet, so unless you really know what you want and how to get it I would strongly recommend selecting based on the magnet and going with the relevant model. I.e. if you want a PAF sound with an A5 magnet, choose the Riff Raff; if you want to go for an AII magnet, go for the Stormy Monday, etc..

[Nolly]

I think the truth is you can put any BKP humbuckers in a decent LP and get some great sounds.

If you don't want anything too hot, you could be looking at anything from Mules to Crawlers - the question then is do you want bright or dark, and do you lean more towards the vintage tones or more towards modern?

This is entirely true. The Les Paul design is used as a testbed for all of the humbuckers since Tim is primarily a Gibson guy. Unless your Lester is uncharacteristically bright or dark, you're fairly safe with any choice.

[Telerocker]

Explained well. Sometimes I wonder if Tim c.s. gets a litte crazy with all these request for special winds and magnets.

[AndyR]

Seems like there's lots of people discussing magnet-swapped Mules at the moment, just to explain - the Vintage range are all very closely related, essentially just subtly different flavours of the PAF sound. In each case the wind is optimised to work with the magnet, so unless you really know what you want and how to get it I would strongly recommend selecting based on the magnet and going with the relevant model. I.e. if you want a PAF sound with an A5 magnet, choose the Riff Raff; if you want to go for an AII magnet, go for the Stormy Monday, etc..

Thanks for posting that Nolly - I'd been wondering about it myself. Certainly I've never really entertained asking for any variations. Just seemed a bit risky for me. My reasoning has always been "Tim designed them like that for a reason - I'll go with what he thought was the business!".

Obviously if you've already tried a bunch in the same guitar and can get across to him why they weren't quite "it", then little tweaks might be just what you need. I'm guessing people are going for it because other folks have been through this and then posted about the results. If Tim's actually recommended someone a "tell you what, let's try X with a bit of Y" and it works for them, they're bound to sing its praises on the forum!

But if it's the first time I'm putting pickups into a guitar, mebbe not, I'll go a la carte. (Actually it does seem a bit like sticking extra salt on a meal you've never had before, before you've even tasted it - you might like the result, but you'll never know that the meal was actually even better before you changed it :lol:)

Anyway, Blackcaster, I have a Love Rock with Mules in. I use it for ole skool rock and bluesy stuff. However, I use a Gibson Faded SG with Riff Raffs in more. Both guitars can do pretty much the same job, but the Riff Raffs seem a slightly more focused sound. If I want to go for a more metal tone, it's definitely the Riff Raff bridge for me.

I've not tried it, but I have a feeling that Nolly's suggestion of Riff Raff bridge and Mule neck could be a very versatile set in a Love Rock. Especially, if you lean slightly towards vintage rather than modern like I do.

If you're leaning more towards modern - I'm out of my depth! :lol:

[Nolly]

Thanks for posting that Nolly - I'd been wondering about it myself. Certainly I've never really entertained asking for any variations. Just seemed a bit risky for me. My reasoning has always been "Tim designed them like that for a reason - I'll go with what he thought was the business!".

Obviously if you've already tried a bunch in the same guitar and can get across to him why they weren't quite "it", then little tweaks might be just what you need. I'm guessing people are going for it because other folks have been through this and then posted about the results. If Tim's actually recommended someone a "tell you what, let's try X with a bit of Y" and it works for them, they're bound to sing its praises on the forum!

But if it's the first time I'm putting pickups into a guitar, mebbe not, I'll go a la carte. (Actually it does seem a bit like sticking extra salt on a meal you've never had before, before you've even tasted it - you might like the result, but you'll never know that the meal was actually even better before you changed it :lol:)

Yep, you've hit the nail on the head. These things do start out with the best intentions - a very specific function needed or maybe a magnet swap on an existing BKP instead of disposing with it and buying a new one - but unless specifically recommended by Tim and the team I would always suggest keeping things stock.
I also think that to an extent people like the idea of having things that are one-off or customised for them. Perhaps they don't fully realise the extremely fine balance of variables within the design of each pickup, and that changing one aspect doesn't necessarily keep the existing qualities they like and add a favourable new character. As you say, Tim has arrived at the specs for a reason, borne out of a huge amount of R&D.
I like your analogy of adding salt to a meal without tasting it - very apt! :)

[Philly Q]

Seems like there's lots of people discussing magnet-swapped Mules at the moment, just to explain - the Vintage range are all very closely related, essentially just subtly different flavours of the PAF sound. In each case the wind is optimised to work with the magnet, so unless you really know what you want and how to get it I would strongly recommend selecting based on the magnet and going with the relevant model. I.e. if you want a PAF sound with an A5 magnet, choose the Riff Raff; if you want to go for an AII magnet, go for the Stormy Monday, etc..

Yes, very good points about not "tweaking" the magnets when the models have been carefully voiced with certain magnets in mind.

Funnily enough, the only magnet-swap which has really tempted me is the one you specifically mentioned, the AV Mule (for bridge position).  I own and like the Riff Raff, but - I imagine - the AV Mule might sound a little "bigger" due to the offset coil winds.

That said, I still haven't tried the regular AIV Mules.  I really must stop buying guitars and buy some pickups for the ones I've already got. 

[kevinr]

When it comes to tones we all have our own views on what it should sound like! pafs are a prime example of this with the variations that are around, some winders think it should be AII, others AIV or AV! because we all hear things different  our ears will tell us when it's correct! I for one have not been happy with AIV in any neck pickup that I have heard! I have swapped both my Crawler and Mule neck over to AV and I'm now happy with what I hear, maybe with me it's mind over matter! although I'm not alone amongst my circle of seasoned muso friends in the preference of AV over AIV in the neck spot.