Modern metal: BD vs. RY (bridge) + VHII vs. Mule (neck)?

[Euthanasia]

Hey guys!
Need a little help here..!

I search for a new set for my guitar (1994 Jackson kelly pro, maple neckthrough, poplar wings, ebony board, tuned down to A) and was thinking about Blackdog/Rebel Yell for bridge and Mule/VHII for neck.

For the bridge I look for a really big, organic and tight sound, punchy and throaty low notes, with lots of high and low mids. A really good pick attack and dynamics are importent too!
I play methcore "djent" but not exactly, so I want it to be able to get there but actually I look for a more organic and smooth tone. Think about nolly's sound (esspecially in comparison to others in the genre.
For the neck I look for a pickup who have a warm (!), fat, rich cleans with a nice sparkle, which can do jazz tones but is versatile.
I want it to be good at distortion leads aswell (not to be muddy) but actually I play leads mostly with the bridge pickup.

I had in the past:
C-pig - Sound was amazing, hugh and organic but it has too much output and bass
C-bomb - again, amazing sound with punchy throaty low notes but I need better pick attack with more high mids.
Miracle man (neck) - great sound, warm and dark, but needs to be edgier with distortion leads.
Cold Sweat (neck) - Hated this pickup. too bright, hollow and cold IMO. my least favorite BKP.

I would like to hear your opinions/impressions!!
Thanks alot (:

[Madsakre]

i think you would dig the aftermath for what you're after :)

By the way. Methcore xD must be popular in ghetto areas :)

[darkbluemurder]

I am no metal expert by any stretch but I will give you my 0.02c anyway :)

If you liked the C-Bomb but wanted more high mids then the Cold Sweat bridge would have been my first thought. Rebel Yell would also go in that direction. Both are quite bright but not harsh. They have a lot of cut and are tight in the bass. Keep in mind however that I tune down only a half step. Drop C# is as low as I'll go. The specifically recommended models for downtuners (B and lower) would be the Painkiller and Aftermath. 

I have quite a few BKP neck models, the VHII and Cold Sweat among them. If you did not like the Cold Sweat then you better stay away from the Rebel Yell neck, they are quite similar. The VHII and Abraxas are both bright with similar output than the Cold Sweat. I would look at the Nailbomb or Emerald neck models - they seem to be a bit hotter but not as hot as the Miracle Man. Of course the Aftermath neck if you are going for the set.

Cheers Stephan

[ericsabbath]

the black dog is the least tight BKP model I ever had
I had to use it very close to the strings to make it sound tight
it has a quite warm and smooth overall response
you could consider the riff raff instead, if you really want something low output

your description sounds like a holy diver, but after reading your impressions on the other models you had, guess you're after an aftermath, which has a very similar voicing to the diver, but with a very edgy and kinda dry response

[Telerocker]

Perhaps an A-bomb does the trick too.

[Euthanasia]

Hello again,

I didnt like the aftermath for it's dry/harsh/too edgy/not organic tone.
The cold sweat is my least favorite bridge pickup.
I really loved the riff raff bridge pickup but it wasnt tight enaugh for the single notes in my style of music/playing.

The Painkiller sounds really nice for bridge but I mentioned the specific pickups mentioned below for the reason I listened carfully to all the sound clips on the BKP site and these ones I liked the most (exept for the RY-bridge which dont have a modern metal clip).
The black dog sounds really tight on the modern metal clips on the BKP site and the other clips nolly uses it on.

Please help me choose a set with these 4 pickups!

[Telerocker]

Contact the BKP-team. For what you describe I would say A-Bomb or, eq-wise, Miracle Man, but if you can stand some hum, you might look at the Stockholm p90.

[Euthanasia]

As said, I heard all the humbuckers and liked the blackdog the most from all the bridge pickups which has the modern metal clip at the bkp site.
I didnt like the MM. the a-bomb was nice but the BD sounded better. I did like the PK but again, my choises are clear.
And I dont look for a p90, just humbuckers.
Thanks!

[asianaxeman]

rebel yell, vhII neck or particularly if you downtune, Pk bridge, VHII neck or nailbomb neck

[ericsabbath]

tthe black dog is not tight sounding, believe me
it CAN sound tight, just like any BKP
bet Nolly could make a stormy monday sound like that

the holy diver in same guitar (70's les paul) was considerably tighter, hotter and edgier than the black dog
(bridge pickups were swapped in this order: nailbomb -> afwayu -> cold sweat -> aftermath -> holy diver -> black dog -> riff raff)
the nailbomb sounded LOUD, punchy and quite edgy, but no near as midrangy as the diver

[darkbluemurder]

Hello again,

I didnt like the aftermath for it's dry/harsh/too edgy/not organic tone.
The cold sweat is my least favorite bridge pickup.
I really loved the riff raff bridge pickup but it wasnt tight enaugh for the single notes in my style of music/playing.

The Painkiller sounds really nice for bridge but I mentioned the specific pickups mentioned below for the reason I listened carfully to all the sound clips on the BKP site and these ones I liked the most (exept for the RY-bridge which dont have a modern metal clip).
The black dog sounds really tight on the modern metal clips on the BKP site and the other clips nolly uses it on.

Please help me choose a set with these 4 pickups!

So if it has to be from the Rebel Yell/Black Dog and Mule/VHII selection, I would choose a Rebel Yell for the bridge and a VHII for the neck for the simple reason that they are both bright pickups and should therefore be better suited to downtuning.

When you said you did not like the Cold Sweat bridge did you go by the clips or have you played it? I personally find clips to be of restricted use since every axe, player, amp and recording set up is different.

BTW: what pickups do you have in your axe right now? And did you use the BKPs mentioned in your first post in this specific axe?

Cheers Stephan

[Nolly]

The Rebel Yell is great (as is the Emerald - worth considering too if you're looking at lower output offerings) but really it sounds like you're trying to find a pickup that can reconcile some very different sounds, and I'm not sure you'll be successful with that.
I disagree hotly with Eric's evaluation of the Black Dog - in my many experiences with the BD it has always been extremely tight, and the top end is not overly smooth or rolled off.

Same goes for the neck pickup - do you actually play jazz/want jazz clean sounds? If so, just roll back the tone with any neck pickup; if your pickup sounds like that with the tone on full then it's not going to have any definition when you're using it for high-gain soloing.
When you tried the Cold Sweat, what were you using it in combination with? If you were using it with a much hotter bridge, you may have found the difference in output left it sounding undergained and bright when switching between the two with the same amp settings.


Are you using an amp and cab, or a modeller? If the former, do you use a boost pedal in front?
Your description of the bridge pickups you've tried would lead to suggest an Aftermath, it ticks all the boxes. The Aftermath neck is also warmer sounding than most, but with a stronger attack than the Miracle Man.

[Euthanasia]

I didnt play the CS bridge but I listened to all the modern metal clips carefully and It was my least favorite there.
Right now I have the C-bomb and MM neck.

Nolly,
I got the thing you say with the neck pickup in jazz tones.
I used the CS neck with the hottest pickup, C-pig, so you got a point.
But anyway I want the BD or RY so it wont fit and I like the VHII and Mule more (due to the clips).
Does the mule should sound warmer/sweeter than the VHII?

I dont like the aftermath. it doesnt sound good too me, it's harsh and not organic IMO.
If I would have taken another pickup which is not the BD or RY it would be the PK which kicks ass and sounds amazing  IMO (looks like it's got the same EQ curve as the BD at the bkp site) but is not as rich sounding as the former two. am I right?

By the way, I use an AxeFX (with a ts in the patch).

[Nolly]

Cool, well I used the Rebel Yell/VHII combination almost exclusively for the Red Seas Fire EP, so perhaps if that's the sound you like it might be worth trying that? FWIW, the Painkiller is a harsher sounding pickup than the Aftermath.

The VHII is hotter, and therefore tends to give a thicker sound with a deeper resonant peak. It has a fairly wide coil offset, which gives great definition and a "springier" clean sound. The Mule is a lower wind with a higher resonant peak, but the AIV magnet gives a smoother sound with a rounder bass. Both would make a good match with any of the pickups you're considering, but given your guitar I think the VHII would be a better choice.

[Euthanasia]

Hey Nolly thanks for your comment!

Actually I liked your BD clips more. I think i found my self liking the more edgy and mascular sound of the blackdog to the smoother (maby weeker?) attack of the rebell yell.

Shouldnt the VHII be a brighter pickup than the Mule? It sounds brighter in  the clips. I like the VHII's shiny highs but sounds like the mule sounds sweeter and warmer in the lows.
Why the VHII  would be a better choice?

I can't see how the painkiller is harsher than the aftermath. the AM got some annoying fizz into it I can't stand.

OT:
If I would be interested in the PK (if I will find it hard working with the low otput pickups), what neck pickup in the vibe of the Mule-VHII (with output to fit the PK) should I take?