Peavey 6505+ Tubes for Metal?

[Nephilim]

My stock tubes are microphonic, so looks like it's upgrade time. Basically if somebody could tell me what type of tube I should get for each position, and why they pick that certain brand of tube. I've also got a couple of questions regarding pre amp tube responsibilities and what works best, if someone could be kind enough to answer?

In the amp you have different positions doing different things right? now I can understand what type of tube to look for for the 'Input Stage' & 'Cascaded Gain' Stages of a valve amp, as well as how to pick a descent phase inverter. But one thing I'm not sure on is what kind of valve am I looking for when that certain pre-amp position deals with, say, the FX loop? on some of my other amps, there's also positions which deal with tone stacks (which I have no idea what that is), so i wondered what type of tube works well for that position? Back to the peavey, the 6505+ has that extra valve specially for the clean channel, so I wondered if it would be better to put a nice sounding valve there, rather than something high gain like EH, JJ or Tung Sol?

All of the above are 12AX7. Thanks for taking the time to read the post :)

[Cboysen]

My stock tubes are microphonic, so looks like it's upgrade time. Basically if somebody could tell me what type of tube I should get for each position, and why they pick that certain brand of tube. I've also got a couple of questions regarding pre amp tube responsibilities and what works best, if someone could be kind enough to answer?

In the amp you have different positions doing different things right? now I can understand what type of tube to look for for the 'Input Stage' & 'Cascaded Gain' Stages of a valve amp, as well as how to pick a descent phase inverter. But one thing I'm not sure on is what kind of valve am I looking for when that certain pre-amp position deals with, say, the FX loop? on some of my other amps, there's also positions which deal with tone stacks (which I have no idea what that is), so i wondered what type of tube works well for that position? Back to the peavey, the 6505+ has that extra valve specially for the clean channel, so I wondered if it would be better to put a nice sounding valve there, rather than something high gain like EH, JJ or Tung Sol?

All of the above are 12AX7. Thanks for taking the time to read the post :)

First of all, I'm not that much into tubes, so don't run off and buy stuff just for what I recommend;) .. just to be on the safe side...

anyway.. afaik the layout for the 6505+ is

V1-A main input gain
V1-B rhythm gain
V2-A lead gain
V2-B rhythm eq
V3 lead gain
V4 lead eq
V5 phase inverter-drive tube for more signal
Each tube has a 2 stage function but V3 and V4 are dedicated to lead gain and lead eq.
Only one stage of V5 is used for the phase inverter.

Taken directly from the peavey tech at peaveys forum.

All denpending on your style and playing etc, each tube got it's own sorta vibe - but of course some tubes are just better quality than others. JJ got a few standard packages... So since you got a 6505+, I assume you play stuff like metal/Modern stuff. For which I'd go for something like:

RUBY 6L6GCMSTR's for Power tubes
For the 12AX7's, go with a Tung-Sol 12AX7 in V1
Ruby 12AX7AC7 HG in V2
Penta Labs 12AX7 in V3-V4 and a Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V5.

This is more or less based on some recommendations I got from dougtubes a while ago. Throw him an Email with the kinda setup you got and your style of playing. He responds quickly and with very detailed indepth knowledge. I guess you could call him the Tim of tubes.

kind regards. Christian

[Dmoney]

My stock tubes are microphonic, so looks like it's upgrade time. Basically if somebody could tell me what type of tube I should get for each position, and why they pick that certain brand of tube. I've also got a couple of questions regarding pre amp tube responsibilities and what works best, if someone could be kind enough to answer?

In the amp you have different positions doing different things right? now I can understand what type of tube to look for for the 'Input Stage' & 'Cascaded Gain' Stages of a valve amp, as well as how to pick a descent phase inverter. But one thing I'm not sure on is what kind of valve am I looking for when that certain pre-amp position deals with, say, the FX loop? on some of my other amps, there's also positions which deal with tone stacks (which I have no idea what that is), so i wondered what type of tube works well for that position? Back to the peavey, the 6505+ has that extra valve specially for the clean channel, so I wondered if it would be better to put a nice sounding valve there, rather than something high gain like EH, JJ or Tung Sol?

All of the above are 12AX7. Thanks for taking the time to read the post :)

V1-A main input gain
V1-B rhythm gain
V2-A lead gain
V2-B rhythm eq
V3 lead gain
V4 lead eq
V5 phase inverter-drive tube for more signal
Each tube has a 2 stage function but V3 and V4 are dedicated to lead gain and lead eq.
Only one stage of V5 is used for the phase inverter.

V5... really? Pretty sure its a Long Tailed Pair PI in which case both halves of V5 are used. That tech makes it sound like a cathodyne which you would find in a Valveking.
without getting specific... looking at the schem i just googled for the 5150II

V1A - Input for both channels (1st gain stage)
V1B - 2nd lead gain stage
V2A - 3rd lead gain stage
V2B - 4th lead gain stage
V5B - 5th lead gain stage
V5A - 6th lead gain stage (driving tone stack from the anode)
V3B - FX loop driver for both channels
V3A - FX loop recovery stage for both channels
V4A + V4B - Phase Inverter
V6A - 2nd clean gain stage
V6B - 3rd clean gain stage (driving tone stack from the anode)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2663/6505schemvc0.jpg

[Cboysen]

V5... really? Pretty sure its a Long Tailed Pair PI in which case both halves of V5 are used. That tech makes it sound like a cathodyne which you would find in a Valveking.
without getting specific... looking at the schem i just googled for the 5150II

V1A - Input for both channels (1st gain stage)
V1B - 2nd lead gain stage
V2A - 3rd lead gain stage
V2B - 4th lead gain stage
V5B - 5th lead gain stage
V5A - 6th lead gain stage (driving tone stack from the anode)
V3B - FX loop driver for both channels
V3A - FX loop recovery stage for both channels
V4A + V4B - Phase Inverter
V6A - 2nd clean gain stage
V6B - 3rd clean gain stage (driving tone stack from the anode)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2663/6505schemvc0.jpg

I'm such a fool - The positions is for the 6505+ 112 version which I got, not the 6505+ 120 watt.. so sorry. Thanks for the correction, I'll crawl back in my cave to the rest of the mumble-jumble-tribe.. *facepalm*

[Nephilim]

Sorry, but you're actually both wrong :/. I got this straight from Peavey;

#1 (far right) the rhythm channel
#2 is shared by the rhythm and lead channel (input stage)
#3 and 4- lead channel
#5 effects loop driver
#6 phase splitter

The first tube was added, especially for the rhythm. I just personally want to know if I'm best off with a tube that's not high gain for the rhythm channel (since it's clean) and what kind of tubes are good for Effects loop stages?

Cheers

[Dmoney]

Sorry. you are wrong.
The layout in the 5150 II at least (which is far as I know is the same as the 6505+) doesnt have the valves laid out in numerical order on the PCB.

this is the layout.


If you read the info peavey gave you, and my description based on the 5150II schematic, and look at this picture as a reference. You'll see I'm correct.

[Nephilim]

Sorry. you are wrong.
The layout in the 5150 II at least (which is far as I know is the same as the 6505+) doesnt have the valves laid out in numerical order on the PCB.

this is the layout.


If you read the info peavey gave you, and my description based on the 5150II schematic, and look at this picture as a reference. You'll see I'm correct.

I never said my list was in numerical order regarding V numbers. I listed it what the pretubes jobs do as the pretubes go right to left. So basically I am correct if you'll see:

V6#1 (far right) the rhythm channel
V1#2 is shared by the rhythm and lead channel (input stage)
V2/V5#3 and 4- lead channel
V3#5 effects loop driver
V4#6 phase splitter

You'll see in this link posted by Roger Crimm of Peavey says the exact same thing I do -http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2464
But yes you are correct in the order the tubes go regarding their V number. But the above is the correct description given to me by Peavey, as well as Roger Crimm, on what each tube actually does, and in what order they go left from right. I added the V numbers to em so you get what I mean.

[Dmoney]

no you called me wrong, when i was right. that makes you wrong.

[Nephilim]

no you called me wrong, when i was right. that makes you wrong.

Yup I was, I was quickly reading before work, so dint pay much attention,  and prob did similar to you; as in: You thought I was writing in order that the V numbers go, and I thought the way you wrote the order of the V numbers, was what you thought they went in, right to left, since you added V6 at the end, lol. Ah well. Wasn't saying it in a bad way though, lol. I apologise for my mistake, lol.  :P

[Nephilim]

no you called me wrong, when i was right. that makes you wrong.

But you also called me wrong, when I was right too, which makes both of us right, but wrong :P. But that leads me back to my main question. Would I be best using something not as high gain in V6 and V3? I'm just not familiar with choosing amps for the Rhythm Channel, and FX loop

[Dmoney]

i used to own a 6505, and i messed with the valves in it. so i know the valve layout is kind of weird. why they did it that way I don't know. maybe something to do with PCB design?

[Nephilim]

i used to own a 6505, and i messed with the valves in it. so i know the valve layout is kind of weird. why they did it that way I don't know. maybe something to do with PCB design?

Yh, it is a tad weird lol. Ah well. At least Peavey are very nice with providing people with schematics; unlike some other companies, lol. I just really want to know about tube choice. I was thinking something like:

V6 - Unsure
V1 - Tung Sol
V2 - JJ
V5 - Penta Labs
V3 - Unsure
V4 - Sovtek LPS

I just thought a Tung Sol would provide a great, top quality, 3D, sound for the input stage/Lead Stage. And the JJ/Penta would provide a great addition to the Tung Sol for the cascaded gain stages - kind of gives you the best of all 3 worlds. What do you think?

[Roobubba]

I just put JJs in everywhere and it sounds awesome.

Call me a heretic, but I don't get the whole 'worrying about which tubes to use' thing. There are so very many things that affect the tone, and perhaps when you've nailed all the other things, then tweaking the tubes to get what you like is a viable option, but at the outset when you haven't yet scratched the surface of different tones on offer, frankly I don't see the point in worrying about it.
The bottom line is this: That amp sounds awesome. It sounds awesome with JJs in, and it'll sound awesome with pretty much any other 12AX7 or 12AT7 or whatever similar tube you want to put in there. You'll get FAR more variance in your tone by changing the tone knobs once you're plugged in, by changing pickups, strings, guitars, picks, cables, temperature oh God the list goes on.
I'm not saying there's no difference between different tubes.
I am saying that until you've exhausted the other options, there's really very little point in worrying about them.

And that's why I still have a full set of JJs in mine, and it still sounds utterly brutal and glorious :)

[Dmoney]

i agree with Roo partially.

If you want to change valves, you'll hear a difference in V1 the most, but I don't really have any other opinion. I mostly use JJ's. I think you'd notice a difference right away if you used lower gain valves like 12AY7's or 12AU7's anywhere. I think that preamp has so much gain its probably worth considering robust valves that are less prone to microphonics, like the JJ ECC83S. I like those, they've served me well. you could also try JJ ECC803S which are a different construction, with larger plates like the Sovtek. These sound a bit better than the ECC83S.

to be fair it will probably have JJ's in it anyway. JJ's are easy to get hold of and don't cost the earth.

for me, I like a lower gain valve in V1 in my amps. I'm a fan of using a 5751 type for the first stages it seems. It has less gain than a 12AX7/ECC83 but in an amp like the 6505 you have so much gain anyway it doesn't really matter.

[Nephilim]

I was originally going to get JJs for every position, until I relised my 6505+ already had em, and it sounded a bit dark to me. The tube selection I mentioned was advised by Doug from Dougs Tubes. Except the Tubes which I didn't know what to pick was filled in by Pental Labs by him, since he said chinese tubes are great for metal. Maybe I should just have a Tung Sol in V1, JJ in V2, Penta Labs in /V3/V5/V6 & Sovtek in V4.

But back to my original question which I keep asking. What the bloody hell does a ToneStack do in Valve amps, and how come your FX loop is ran by Valves? Also If I use the Rhythm channel just for cleans, is there much point in a high gain Tube?