question about HD

[Dragoneti]

Hello everybody!!

I have a question regarding a holy diver bridge pickup that i have at the moment in my usa charvel san dimas.

It seems to me that compaired to both the JB that came with the guitar (trembucker at 17 kohms) and a Dimarzio super distortion that i had laying around (f spaced at 14.5kohm), the holy diver (which measures at 15.8 ) comes out as more anemic in terms of gain and output.

To be more specific i play 80s hard rock / hair metal (bon jovi, van halen, dokken, older priest etc) through a jvm/ greenbacks using the OD1 green (modded jcm800 gain wise channel) + a mid boost from either a tubescremer (gain at zero, vol max) or a mxr KFK1 eq pedal.

While with both the JB and SD the level of saturation that i want is there with the above settings, with the HD i have to increase the gain on the pedal to have the same overal level of gain.

Is it normal or something is wrong with my HD? the wiring seems to be ok in the guitar (after all there only one volume + the switch and its not my first pickup change, more like my 50th+... :P). The neck pickup remain the 59 that came with the guitar.

Thank you in advance

Stelios

[Alex]

Both the JB and the DiMarzio Super Distortion already add their own distortion and fizz to the sound, whereas the HD is cleaner and doesn't add any additional distortion to the sound. The clean signal should be comparably loud, although the DiMarzio is a very loud and powerful pickup and should be louder (and more compressed, less open) than the others. In other words, with the HD when it comes to the gain you'll hear the gain from the amp and the OD pedal, not from the pickup. Just increase the gain on the amp and after a while you should hear the benefits of this approach in terms of overall tone and clarity.

[ericsabbath]

how's the tone?  :D

[asianaxeman]

to play that style in my experience with the HD and JVM combo you need to either boost OD2 with gain not past 9 o'clock, or if not using a boost put gain close to 12 o'clock. As said before the HD is cleaner and with more clarity so you need to up the preamp gain to saturate it as well as your other pickups. Problem with the OD2 channel it's generally horribly scooped and trebley, the only way you can salvage it, if you want that marshall roar, is to use your eq to boost certain mid frequencies so it adopt the character of OD1 channel or crunch orange/red. You can find the eq conversion settings on the JVM forum, they've been put there by Santiago their main tech/designer.

[Dragoneti]

Thank you all for your answers!

The tone is fine, clear and articulate as already stated it should, i just was wondering if there was something wrong with the pickup as i thought it should be comparable gainwise with either JB or SD so i thought i should ask to make sure :)

As for JVM i'm using the 410H head with a 1960 loaded with greenbacks (for this week anyway... :P ) and i choose to od1 green + boost instead of od1 orange as it has a more classic vibe and the known marshall roar :) OD1 and OD2 is comparable in gain in the same modes, the mids frequency only changes, OD2 is at 500hz and thus more modern tone.

Thank you again for the answers!

Stelios

[ericsabbath]

if possible, you can also set your hd closer to the strings
difference in output, attack and low end should be very noticeable with a small adjust

[Sancho]

That's my experience with the HD as well. It seems to lack punch and output. The tone is good, but it is actually lower in output than the Cool Rails in the mid and neck position of that guitar...

[Miracle Man]

The HD is my favourite BKP exactly for the reasons you state above. Initially, I bought a Mule and then I made the (big) jump to the HD, because I like the firm low end of hot pickups. What surprised me, is that the HD didn't seem that hot because it wasn't all that crunchy or grainy (probably not the best words to describe what I'm hearing). It's sort of like comparing an overdrive pedal (typical high output p-up) to a clean boost (HD). In my guitar it has lots of punch and sustain with all the characteristics of a hot pickup, but without the fizz. It sounds very flute-ish to me  :) 

[Sir_Palomid]

That's my experience with the HD as well. It seems to lack punch and output. The tone is good, but it is actually lower in output than the Cool Rails in the mid and neck position of that guitar...

Second that,
at least with my PRS and Marshall JVM-205. I moved HD closer to the strings but it doesn't help a lot, no punch, and output is low. Moved to Cold Sweat set and satisfied with it :)

Troy, interesting, how people hearing things so different. I think HD was less impressive set of all BKP I've tried - Cold Sweat, Nailbomb, Abraxas, HD... my favorites are Cold Sweat followed by Nailbomb. I didn't like HD at all.

[Miracle Man]

Troy, interesting, how people hearing things so different. I think HD was less impressive set of all BKP I've tried - Cold Sweat, Nailbomb, Abraxas, HD... my favorites are Cold Sweat followed by Nailbomb. I didn't like HD at all.

Well that makes sense  :lol: I also have a CS that I tried in the same guitar and I have also played a Nailbomb equiped guitar for a few days about two weeks ago. In my opinion, they're all in the same camp output wise, but the CS is VERY crunchy, the HD is very clean and the NB sits somewhere in the middle. The CS is my second favourite pickup though 8) the Nailbomb wasn't my thing though, I didn't like the mids that much and the bass was too much.

[Sir_Palomid]

the Nailbomb wasn't my thing though, I didn't like the mids that much and the bass was too much.

I wouldn't say that NB has more bass than CS - CS is way more bassy, but it's tighter and faster, and equally balanced with good ammount of highs. NB just lacked highs - and get feeeling that it is bassy.
But I agree with unique midrange thing on NB - not for everybody for sure.

[ericsabbath]

guess the guitar makes a lot of difference

the diver sounded amazing in the 3 les pauls I had it installed, and completely dead for rhythms in a Gibson SG
in the gibson sg, it sounded good for leads only, but weak, too soft and dark for rhythms

in my jap lp copy, it sounded somewhat clean, but quite balanced and toneful

in my brazilian lp copy w/ brazilian mahogany (same as honduras), brazilian rosewood and imbuya top (quite dark sounding guitar), it sounded really deep, powerful and bassy, but not muffled or dark at all

in my real 1973 lp custom, it sounded punchy and quite saturated (which is why I replaced it with a black dog, and later with a riff raff), and also had a lot more attack than I expected (from previous guitars)
it was a lot like the aftermath it replaced, but smooth instead of scratchy, and not as loud

in all of them, it sounded better very close to the strings, unlike the other contemporary models

still one of my favorite bridge pickups, along with the riff raff and the cold sweat
I definitely liked it much better than the nailbomb, painkiller, warpig, miracle man, alnico miracle man, aftermath... (and I loved all of them)
the black dog sounded like a smoother and darker version of the diver (I still have it waiting in a broken neck SG)
I still gotta try the rebel yell and the ceramic versions of the nailbomb and warpig

[Miracle Man]

I wouldn't say that NB has more bass than CS - CS is way more bassy...

Like I said, it was in a different guitar so maybe that's where the extra bass came from. But I still don't think the NB is all that tight.

the diver sounded amazing in the 3 les pauls I had it installed, and completely dead for rhythms in a Gibson SG
in the gibson sg, it sounded good for leads only, but weak, too soft and dark for rhythms

Depends on the SG    Mine's in an SG supreme (mahogany back and neck, maple top, ebony board) and it sounds fantastic! Obviously it's not a typical SG though...  :P

[Sancho]

guess the guitar makes a lot of difference

I think so too, yeah. It may be the guitar in my case. I'm going to completely redo the wiring and replace the pots and cap in mine, just to see if it makes a difference.

[Dragoneti]

Thank you for your answers!

Hm, from what i'm reading about HD and les pauls, i'm now tempted to return the Super Distortion to the charvel and move the holydiver to an old les paulish washburn that currently has a black dog in its bridge... just for the test of it at least... (and maybe the black dog to be moved to the neck position of the same guitar? tempting...)

Btw how is the nailbomb (the alnico ver) for 80s hard/hair rock on a floyd blocked(tremol-no) charvel, alder with maple neck? :)

As regarding to the pickup height i always shoot for an approximate of 2.1mm on the bass side and 1.7mm on the treble side (last fret string depressed) as the middle ground from recommendation values of both duncan and dimarzio that i used for years, should i move it closer or will that be too close?