Les pauls.

[DoomBuggi]

Also, most things made in Japan are really good.

[Sancho]

I have three Gibson Les Pauls I cherish.
But I've been buying Edwards and Tokai recently.
The Tokais especially come very close.

[DoomBuggi]

I have three Gibson Les Pauls I cherish.
But I've been buying Edwards and Tokai recently.
The Tokais especially come very close.

Aren't the Tokai built in Korea now?

 And how are those Edwards Les Paul?  I have been really curious.  I knew about them awhile back.  Since then the prices have gone up significantly.

[Philly Q]

Tokais are built in Japan, Korea or China, depending on the price bracket.

Edwards are part built in China, then assembled and finished in Japan.

I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer.  But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware. 

They used to be great bargains, but as you say the prices have gone up (although they don't have good resale value at the moment  :( ) 

[DoomBuggi]

I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer.  But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware. 

 I've always consider the guitar, itself, the platform or foundation of the sound.  Hardware and pickups can always be changed.

They used to be great bargains, but as you say the prices have gone up (although they don't have good resale value at the moment  :( ) 

Thats really good to know.  I looked up some used one after you state this.  Funny, though, for resale they are going for slightly less than they used be priced at new.

[Philly Q]

I think the MIJ Tokais capture the "vintage vibe" a bit better than Edwards, and they usually have chunkier necks which I prefer.  But Edwards score points with slightly better pickups and hardware. 

 I've always consider the guitar, itself, the platform or foundation of the sound.  Hardware and pickups can always be changed.

I agree, but it depends how much your budget extends to include both the guitar and "upgrades".  :)

[gordiji]

it's not often you see the upper end (ls 150 and up) on the second hand market.they're not common though so it's not surprising either.above ls 150 you start paying for fancy tops etc so on these models the 'value' is less apparent (to the cheapskate).
the ls 150 is the best value in my view (of current'ish'models) as it the first guitar in the series built like a 50's lp.(like the gibbo reissues).
i don't like the paf 2 pups but factoring in a new set of bkp's will give a bill of around £1400 for this guitar. this for
comparison would need to be compared to an reissue gibson price. this is my logic anyway.the guitar is its ingredients not its name.
from time to time the sharp eyed can find new ones at less than the above price :lol:
older tokai's pre 2000 and specifically the 80's are another subject but its interesting to follow the differences in construction for both makes because what you see is not what you get, so to speak.
interesting posts doom buggi regarding the gibson spec data.

[Philly Q]

it's not often you see the upper end (ls 150 and up) on the second hand market.they're not common though so it's not surprising either.above ls 150 you start paying for fancy tops etc so on these models the 'value' is less apparent (to the cheapskate).

I don't think it's necessarily people being cheapskates, more that most people aren't aware of the differences between the different Tokai models.  The model numbers are confusing - and hard to remember - and (visually, at least) it's hard to tell much difference between one MIJ Tokai and another.  So I reckon one of the reasons people don't sell high-end Tokais is that they know they'll never get their money back!

I have an SG-155 (or SG-175 now, unless it's changed again).  There's nothing on the guitar to say the model name (except a tag in the case, which most people wouldn't have). In a photo it looks exactly like an SG-75, and frankly it plays almost exactly like an SG-75.  OK, it's got a one-piece body and a nitro finish, but the average punter looking for bargains on eBay doesn't know that.  I couldn't sell it without making a HUGE loss!

[gordiji]

by 'cheapskates' i mean me :lol:, but the point i was making (badly) is that the discerning guitar seeker wont find better
tone by having figured tops but this does add considerable $'s.
by the way check out the bridge pup cavity (or neck) for your model number,(ULS......) if you ever sell it will mean a lot
to the buyer and at least you can justify your claims to its superiority even if not 'visible'.

[Philly Q]

by the way check out the bridge pup cavity (or neck) for your model number,(ULS......) if you ever sell it will mean a lot
to the buyer and at least you can justify your claims to its superiority even if not 'visible'.

Thanks for the tip - I can't remember seeing a model number, but I wasn't specifically looking, so it could be there!  :)

[DoomBuggi]

interesting posts doom buggi regarding the gibson spec data.

 I spend a lot of time researching things I'm into.  That is why I'm on this forum now.   Though it is my first to be on any forum.  I found knowledgeable people posting here more frequently than most other sites I've been to.  I want to understand to how to get the best tone for myself as well as help other's find their own.  Either way, I get to learn more.

 Besides that, I wanted to save some else the time and agony you have to go through to find a shred of factual information.  Forums can be exhausting, especially when there is some one who thinks they know something.  I can say, I only know what I have experienced, not what I pretend to experience.

[marantz1300]

If you want long tenon,solid.Look at Historic's.Norlin era are solid(some are pancake,mahogony with a thin layer of maple in the middle) and trans tenon.The Kalamazoo made Les pauls have mahogony necks,ABR bridge and are lighter.My 71 is 9.5 lb.Those from Nashville are  maple necked.I think 1980 onwards are back to hog necks and have no holes.
Customs have ebony boards,so do late 70's Les Paul Pro's.
My 71 and VOS 57 Custom.I like pics . :D

[AnnunakiMassacr]

How about one of the Epiphone Les Paul Prophecy range?

[oncesolemn]

Weight-relief started around 1982/1983. Every Gibson USA Les Paul between 1982 - 2007 is weight-relieved. They do not have solid-body construction.

Anybody out here who could confirm this piece of information?  I have a '95 and '05 Standard, which definitely do not feel weight relieved!  What's more, on passing through Heathrow recently the '05 had to go through the X-ray, and I don't recall seeing any evidence of weight relief then.

If anyone can say whether this proposed deception by Gibson is correct, please do!




If I'm not right, I'm wrong.

[ericsabbath]

yes, they are probably weight relieved, unless they're some sort of custom shop model
the weight relief is just 9 "bullet holes" in the mahogany right below the maple top
it's not really something that would take out a big chunk of wood or even much weight
it is not the same type of weight relief used in the chambered ones or some weight relief methods used in 70's/80's japanese, korean and brazilian copies
one of the best sounding les pauls I ever played was a 2005 les paul standard faded and that was definitely a "nine holer"