Black dog vs Painkiller

[sixgunsovertombstone]

Hey all. I'm looking for new pickups for my axe, replacing a super 3 in the bridge.

Anyways, I've narrowed it down to the Black Dogs or the Painkillers... Painkillers obviously throw some serious firepower while the Black dogs are much more relaxed. Can someone detail the differences between them? They have the same eq spread on the tone charts, and to me they sound... sort of similar...

I'm somehow strangely drawn to the painkillers, even though I've been warned against them... I was also warned that Rebel Yells in my strat would be too sharp/too much mid spike, but I absolutely love those pickups. The Painkillers are just so aggressive, grindy, punchy, tight, and thick in the mids, which is what I'm looking for. I'm just worried they might be a little too over the top... as per the warnings I've got.

The black dogs sound awesome though, my favorite clips on the site. However, for some reason, the black dog metal clip seems different to me, there's something going on in the mix that seems different to me, I'm not sure if that is real or not. Anyways, I just don't know if the Black dogs have enough juice to hang out in a metal setting the way I would want them to. Don't get me wrong, they sound hot and sexy and all that but the painkillers sound effortless to play in a metal setting while the black dogs sound like I'll have to work for it (as in play extra hard and tight).

At any rate, I do a lot of shred and tight modern rhythm stuff (not djent though). I love mids too. To me it seems the Painkillers might overshoot my requirements, while the Black dog might undershoot them. I suppose a matter of pickup height would probably fix that though... Super close with the black dog, or far away with the Painkiller?

I already have nailbombs, holy diver, and rebel yells so I was looking for something new. Guitar is maple neck, mahogany body, bolt on. Great sounding guitar, really resonates well. Very full across the spectrum. How does the black dog compare in terms of output/aggression to these pickups?

Thanks

[EffigyForgotten]

At any rate, I do a lot of shred and tight modern rhythm stuff (not djent though). I love mids too. To me it seems the Painkillers might overshoot my requirements, while the Black dog might undershoot them

Based on that aftermath!

[DoomBuggi]

Painkiller is way hotter, more aggressive, more saturated, and the bass response is much faster than the Black Dog.

 A Rebel Yell may be a happy medium between the two.   It shouldn't be over the top for a Mahogany body, with a Maple. Neck.

It depends on the music you play, tuning, and your amp/signal chain.

[Telerocker]

It's comparing apples and pears. Painkiller modern and agressive, Black Dog, thick creamy polite PAF.

[ericsabbath]

the only similar characteristic is that they are both heavily middy
besides that, they sound nothing alike
texture, volume, picking response are in almost opposite sides

I'd say the middle ground would be the holy diver, which you're already familiar

compared to the diver, the black dog has lower volume, smoother top with a darker character, softer bass response and the mids are cleaner, less aggressive
I don't think that's what you're looking for

the painkiller is supposed to be a triple ceramic mag version of the holy diver, and I guess the triple mag is what gives it the scratchy feel in the picking response and the higher output with very abrasive upper mids

the aftermath is pretty close to the painkiller, but the mids are more centered, like the holy diver, with less 'hairy' upper mids and maybe just a bit more low mids
feels just as sharp, but seems a little less saturated

[sixgunsovertombstone]

Hmm well then. Ive definitely heard lots of good things about the aftermath, but I just haven't liked the clips much. I read that the modern metal clip was done with a B2 Blackmachine for the Aftermath as opposed to the les paul with all the other clips... So maybe that is contributing to as to why I feel as though it sounds a little different and maybe not to my liking.

I certainly don't want anything darker than a holy diver... so I think I'll skip out on the black dogs for now. But triple mag holy diver? now that sounds like something I'd like!

The aftermath certainly seems smoother than the painkiller, and seems to be a bit more growly vs the painkillers screamy... if that makes sense... I hear a little more top end in the painkillers which I like and they seem more saturated which I also like.

All signs point to Aftermath! But yarg something inside me wants the Painkillers... Also my Guitar is in Drop D which I'm sure will cement everyone in saying I should choose the Aftermath... I just find the Aftermath kind of dry.

[ericsabbath]

if you feel you'll like the painkiller better, go for it
I recorded a video, 4 years ago, of a friend playing his customized 7 string ibanez (selected brazilian mahogany body, stock maple neck) with the painkiller in the bridge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENvB6X3imqg

the camera audio is cr@ppy, but sounded killer and really big in the room
kinda dry, but that was mostly the amps fault (that framus cobra was the driest sounding amp I ever had)

[Alex]

I think the good thing about the Black Dog is that it usually sounds a lot like the clips from it. I don't find it overly dark, only the midrange has more lower mids.
I love it because it is so different and although it is softer and not as tight as the ceramic ones, I love that character it has with metal tones. It really is a matter of taste and that is how I think this needs to be approached. On paper the Painkiller will always be "better" for metal, but if you really want Americano you wouldn't buy a double Espresso, just because it's stronger and more concentrated, would you?

[sixgunsovertombstone]

touche. Well if the Black dog sounds like the clips, which It should... All my pickups sound like the clips anyways... I think It will be a good choice. The Black Dog is my favorite modern metal clip... It sounds pretty tight to me on that clip! and it doesn't sound dark at all either, to me at least from that clip.

[johnson]

Agreed, the Black Dog Modern Metal clip is my favorite on the site.

im sure you have already made a selection but to this topic:

the Painkiller is well suited for Mahogany and might need some taming in the EQ but you have a ton of output to work with, maybe roll off the highs or presence, center the bass and mids and work clockwise / counter from there and dial in a tone.

With the Black Dog maybe less is more? Use the amp to drive a little harder  if you want (still modest gain) by rolling of the bass a little and find a mid balance with the highs to taste.

[MetalHeadMike]

Hey all. I'm looking for new pickups for my axe, replacing a super 3 in the bridge.

Anyways, I've narrowed it down to the Black Dogs or the Painkillers... Painkillers obviously throw some serious firepower while the Black dogs are much more relaxed. Can someone detail the differences between them? They have the same eq spread on the tone charts, and to me they sound... sort of similar...

I'm somehow strangely drawn to the painkillers, even though I've been warned against them... I was also warned that Rebel Yells in my strat would be too sharp/too much mid spike, but I absolutely love those pickups. The Painkillers are just so aggressive, grindy, punchy, tight, and thick in the mids, which is what I'm looking for. I'm just worried they might be a little too over the top... as per the warnings I've got.

The black dogs sound awesome though, my favorite clips on the site. However, for some reason, the black dog metal clip seems different to me, there's something going on in the mix that seems different to me, I'm not sure if that is real or not. Anyways, I just don't know if the Black dogs have enough juice to hang out in a metal setting the way I would want them to. Don't get me wrong, they sound hot and sexy and all that but the painkillers sound effortless to play in a metal setting while the black dogs sound like I'll have to work for it (as in play extra hard and tight).

At any rate, I do a lot of shred and tight modern rhythm stuff (not djent though). I love mids too. To me it seems the Painkillers might overshoot my requirements, while the Black dog might undershoot them. I suppose a matter of pickup height would probably fix that though... Super close with the black dog, or far away with the Painkiller?

I already have nailbombs, holy diver, and rebel yells so I was looking for something new. Guitar is maple neck, mahogany body, bolt on. Great sounding guitar, really resonates well. Very full across the spectrum. How does the black dog compare in terms of output/aggression to these pickups?

Thanks

     What didn't you like about the Super 3 because from what Iv'e heard that thing described as by numerous modern metal players is "aggressive, grindy, punchy, tight, and thick in the mids".  Just curious because I have considered the Super 3 until getting it in my head that I NEED to try a BKP and see what the hype is all about.

As far as your decision making dilemma, I feel your pain brother!

     Like you , I've been drawn to a particular BKP pickup : the C-pig, Aftermath, Painkiller, Blackhawk, Holy Diver, and C-bomb.  Ok, that was 6 different pups, but I've been researching/reading reviews/descriptions till my wife had to smack me upside the head just to get me out of the trance-like state I get into when obsessing over this shite. After many, many recommendations from varied sources, and MY GUT FEELING, I've decided on a C-pig (Ordering it at the end of the month ). My point here is that in the end, and this goes with any mother fuc!!!ng thing in life IMHO, ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT!  The beautiful thing being that if your gut steers you wrong you can always exchange it for the next batter up less a bit of coin for shipping.

[Kiichi]

[MetalHeadMike]

 

[Kiichi]

Aww, we donīt take that too seriously around here, no worries. I just had to. Itīs a reflex you get when you are a digital native and grew up on that series and stuff. ;)


To contribute something helpful still, I kind of agree with the gut sentiment. It is often a good one, true, it might also fail you, true. However, when switching to BKPs you need to start somewhere. I have little doubt that what ever you go for will be a let down. Either way you will apprechiate the pickup you get. It might not be exactly what you hope for, but worst case you can picture it being brilliant in another guitar. What you do gain is a new reference point and a new view on what is possible. From there you can then take it. You might always strike gold, but since I started on BKPs my ears have developed an insane amount, largely thanks to them.

I might be overstating this point a slight bit in the spur of a moment, but the essentials hold true.

And the good thing is that BKP has an amazing return policy and customer service (and worst case resale value), so even if you go, not wrong but, suboptimal, you can use that experience to go to where you want to be.

Rant over. ;)

[MetalHeadMike]

Aww, we donīt take that too seriously around here, no worries. I just had to. Itīs a reflex you get when you are a digital native and grew up on that series and stuff. ;)


To contribute something helpful still, I kind of agree with the gut sentiment. It is often a good one, true, it might also fail you, true. However, when switching to BKPs you need to start somewhere. I have little doubt that what ever you go for will be a let down. Either way you will apprechiate the pickup you get. It might not be exactly what you hope for, but worst case you can picture it being brilliant in another guitar. What you do gain is a new reference point and a new view on what is possible. From there you can then take it. You might always strike gold, but since I started on BKPs my ears have developed an insane amount, largely thanks to them.

I might be overstating this point a slight bit in the spur of a moment, but the essentials hold true.

And the good thing is that BKP has an amazing return policy and customer service (and worst case resale value), so even if you go, not wrong but, suboptimal, you can use that experience to go to where you want to be.

Rant over. ;)

I'd of done the same thing!  It's good to take a stab where applicable; it keeps things lively!

I just need to stay on my toes around here!  All in good fun!

I like your point about a suboptimal choice as opposed to going wrong.  Good reassurance!

Thanks