Minimum Booze Pricing

[shobet]

Or some more White Lightning!

[Afghan Dave]

I really love the British/Irish pub!

I used to be able to visit anywhere in either country and find a nice looking place (after walking past a few dodgy ones) go in, sit at the bar...

Order a pint and read a paper with a fag on the go and wait...

Before too long, I'd have met a few nice people and be chatting away like a local. Glorious times!

Now all the little locals - many with long & proud histories - are going the way of the dodo... and for what?

Let smug middleclass c*nts sit in overpriced coffee shops tapping on iphones or blackberries but give me my PUB!!!!!!

[Afghan Dave]

Or some more White Lightning!

F**k off you ponce, I drink tax free Brut 33 like a proper man!

[shobet]

Or some more White Lightning!

F**k off you ponce, I drink tax free Brut 33 like a proper man!

The bottle is the right size and shape to be used in your other pastime! Once you've drunk it that is. Remember to leave the top off for that fun casualty trip to break the vacuum!

[dave_mc]

I just want smokers not to expect me to breathe in their smoke, if we're in an enclosed space where both of us have equally valid reasons to be there. Which, if you ask me, is fair enough.

As a smoker, I totally agree with you!

If I open "Smokey Dave's Jazz & Fags Booze Club" though... come in and enjoy the smokey fog of smelly deadly dacadence or be asked to leave should you not like the members only practice of Jazzing and Fagging!  :lol: :lol:

Notice: I said MEMBERS CLUB!

Or...

Make smoking in the UK totally illegal. (though foolish at least that would be logically consistant)

What we have now is stupid. A legal & taxable product that I cannot consume with other users indoors & will soon have to be sold under the counter in plain packs... JeeeZus.

oh yeah, of course. If i were to walk into a cigar club or something i obviously wouldn't expect people to stop smoking on my account :lol:

I mean in more neutral places, say a restaurant or something like that.

I also agree with you regarding the mixed messages about its consumption- again, i have no problem with massive "THIS WILL KILL YOU (PROBABLY)!" warnings on it, but no advertising at all, plain packs etc. not so much.

Not that I'm any fan of advertising, mind- I hate it. But the things they're saying are wrong about tobacco ads could be more or less applied to most advertising, if you ask me :lol:

:)

My dog just got attacked by another dog this lunchtime.
The owner didn't have it on a lead and was sat in a field drinking cheap cider.
A minor incident but the timing made me laugh.

In the heat of the moment I didn't get a close enough look at him, but I suspect he was chewing gum, had some mashed potato in his bag and potentially played Paul McCartney tunes on a telecaster when not drinking in a field.

He was probably a cyclist too.

:lol:

that was pretty irresponsible of him letting his dog drink cider

(sorry that was terrible)

hope your dog's ok :)

Yep. I'm not really bothered about having to go outside to smoke - though me and friends definitely go to the pub VASTLY less since the smoking ban - but it'd be far more sensible to simply allow private businesses to make up their own minds. If lots of people are really bothered market forces would make the entire country no-smoking anyway.

Mostly I'm in a huff that when my Alexandrian society do a version of The Bacchae set in a jazz club I can't smoke cigars on stage :lol:

I dunno. That kind of thing tends to only work if you're in a big city. If you're in the sticks and have one pub to go to, market forces don't normally work so well.

fwiw i didn't go into pubs much before the ban. Not that i go into them much now, either, but at least now i'm not saying i'm not going in because it stinks of smoke.

[Afghan Dave]

fwiw i didn't go into pubs much before the ban. Not that i go into them much now, either, but at least now i'm not saying i'm not going in because it stinks of smoke.

Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...

That statement about pubs concurs with my point...

"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"

OK... that's cool.

"lets ban gayness in bath houses"

Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?

"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"

Ehh?  PDT_041 PDT_038

[MDV]

Not that I'm any fan of advertising, mind- I hate it. But the things they're saying are wrong about tobacco ads could be more or less applied to most advertising, if you ask me :lol:

Shock horror, advertising is designed to emotionally compel people to make irrational decisions contrary to their practical best interests with false (mostly) or tenuous (at best) promises of increased social standing, sex appeal, material prosperity and existential fulfilment....and it works!

But its not allowed to work for certain things.

Banning advertising. Now we're talking my sort of totalitarianism :lol: Edward Bernays has A LOT to answer for.

I kid

A little bit.

Aside from anything else, it does no good. Advertising is a red queen effect. Removing that consideration and drain on income just makes an equally level playing field more ultimately profitable.  

[Philly Q]

I really love the British/Irish pub!

I used to be able to visit anywhere in either country and find a nice looking place (after walking past a few dodgy ones) go in, sit at the bar...

Order a pint and read a paper with a fag on the go and wait...

Before too long, I'd have met a few nice people and be chatting away like a local. Glorious times!

Now all the little locals - many with long & proud histories - are going the way of the dodo... and for what?

Let smug middleclass c*nts sit in overpriced coffee shops tapping on iphones or blackberries but give me my PUB!!!!!!

Dave, do you think it's the smoking ban which is killing off pubs (local ones, especially)?

I don't know if it is or not, but my impression is that "community" pubs (and "communities" themselves, for that matter) are dying off anyway as the population ages, and that younger people are more likely to travel to town centre pubs and clubs to do their drinking.

[nfe]

I think there's certainly a cultural change which should take lots of the blame. I still drink in "local" pubs (city centre Glasgow, but local both in atmosphere and proximity to my flat) but generally me and a few pals will be the youngest by a margin, and we're all around 30.

And these are accessible, on the way to clubs, and one (The Horseshoe Bar) is the cheapest pub in the city. I think it's just that younger folks tend to gravitate towards places with chrome everywhere rather than good, wholesome, chipped wooden bars and burst seats.

[Toe-Knee]

younger folks tend to gravitate towards places with chrome everywhere rather than good, wholesome, chipped wooden bars and burst seats.

I have found this.

I generally prefer the grubbier places for a few reasons.

My local dive the snooty fox is such a place. They have some awesome live bands there the staff are friendly as are the regulars but they are an exception to the rule as theyre all around 20-40.

its usually packed and i have not once seen any kind of conflict there which makes it a lot more comfortable.

[38thBeatle]

Most of my gigs are in pubs these days and as a lifelong non smoker, I prefer going home not stinking of fags and my gear ditto. Trouble is, as Dave has said, pubs are closing all over and many of my regular venues are either on the brink or have closed. I don't entirely blame the smoking ban however. I think there is the cultural shift that NFE referred to. I heard a young colleague talking about being in a pub where there was a live band playing and she said that they left shortly after the band started as they were too loud and played "old" music. Hardly a thorough survey or representative bunch but when I look at the punters at one of my gigs there are few young people around. Adding the cost of alcohol to the heady mix and it isn't looking good.  My average of 50 odd gigs in a year will take a hammering this year I think. I have only played 6 this year in my main band compared to 10 by the same time last year.

[Afghan Dave]

All great points.

Yes. The smoking ban has killed many pubs along with huge property prices for period buildings and Pub-cos that make running a Pub uneconomic for landlords and more attractive for redevelopment into housing.

Many old locals are what the trade call "landlocked" = they don't have room for a garden or smoking area at all.

It is a pincer movement that has seen off many a local.

No doubt about the cultural shift by the young.. but is that chicken or egg?

Pubs need to change and adapt to their market & communicate that change. We've heard alot about advertising but that is just a part of good communication.

If I produce/stock a drink young consumers might like/want but can't communicate its attibutes how will they ever know?

As for the "Binge Drinking Culture"

City centre bars all grouped together have tended to spring up in high-streets once filled with real shops and shoppers.

These shoppers have been lured out to mega-mart Tesco/ASDA out of town and the high streets left with empty retail space.

One lucrative use for retail space is stick a few bars/clubs type Yates there and lure the kids who take legal highs en mass with cheap shots who wanna get a blow job round the back of what was once a Dewhursts (butchers remember them?) and is now one of 10 charity or kebab shops filling the empty street.

It's a f**king social problem all right... Makes me want to cry.  :(

[WezV]

I am currently working for a brewer so this has had some effect on the business.  Just a few points from a the big capitalist point of view.  I dont necessarily agree with all of the points but its paraphrased from what i am being told at work

*Uk brewers pay 40% of all the beer tax in europe, we only drink 13% of the beer.
*UK beer tax goes up the stronger the beer is
*Cider and wine pay an EU flat rate of tax.  a 3% cider is taxed the same rate as an 8% cider or 15% wine

*Due to supermarket deals and competitive pricing beer has previously been sold below cost, its currently only an average of 1.5p per pint profit and that is helped a lot by the posher brands that can be charged at a higher rate.  
*most brand name beers already cost more than 40p a unit
*a 3l bottle of strong cider can usually be be had for around £3.50, under minimum pricing it would have to be sold for £6.50 - £3 extra profit margin, no extra taxation.
* Whether the retailer or supplier gets that extra profit is going to cause some issues

* most brewers will be releasing lower alcohol alternative that fall into a lower tax brand - expect to see many more 3% beers in the coming months.

[FredD]

Before the smoking ban I used to shout at the radio/TV everytime I'd hear someone say "I don't go to pubs because my hair/clothes stink... I can't wait for the ban"

"You never go to pubs ANYWAY you F**KER!! and you won't go AFTER the ban!"

They stay at home drinking a bottle of wine watching Eastenders and nagging their partner then maybe, just maybe go to a pub twice a year and moan about people smoking outside!

I know way too many dull ass couples who sit at home and drink like fish - bottles of wine - way more than I could ever do.

That is why more than 10 pubs a week more or less are closing down...

SCUM!!!

I love my pubs and you puritan motherf**kers have sh1t all over the herritage of this country for NO f**king good reason.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

[dave_mc]

Dave, though I mostly agree with you and feel you shouldn't be forced to put up with the unpleasant aspects of smoke in a public building...

That statement about pubs concurs with my point...

"I don't go into gay bath houses because I don't like being propositioned"

OK... that's cool.

"lets ban gayness in bath houses"

Great... so you wanna go to a bath house?

"I don't like bath houses but it's good that I can now go if I ever want to without being propositioned"

Ehh?  PDT_041 PDT_038

well, i sorta see your point, but at the same time it's not beyond the realms of possibility that i might go into one. and i certainly went into them a fair bit when i was younger and was pissed off at the stink all the time. and also it's not just pubs, it's many types of public building (restaurants, say).

there's also the whole effect it's having on people who work there. I know a lot of the people wanted it banned for that reason (which i'd also have sympathy with).

Shock horror, advertising is designed to emotionally compel people to make irrational decisions contrary to their practical best interests with false (mostly) or tenuous (at best) promises of increased social standing, sex appeal, material prosperity and existential fulfilment....and it works!

But its not allowed to work for certain things.

Banning advertising. Now we're talking my sort of totalitarianism :lol: Edward Bernays has A LOT to answer for.

I kid

A little bit.

Aside from anything else, it does no good. Advertising is a red queen effect. Removing that consideration and drain on income just makes an equally level playing field more ultimately profitable. 

hehe :lol: