37 in a 30...

[juansolo]

So - I did the course a few weeks back.

It was actually really interesting.  Good mix of people there, old gits, middle ages idiots like me that think they know everything, and youngsters.

I have to say, I did actually learn some stuff.  How to tell if you're in a built up area, tips for not drifting over the speed limit.

I've been practising sticking to speed limits since the course.  Haven 't drifted over any, have left decent space between me and the car in front, not got stressed or angry with queue jumpers etc.  I'm now (or currently) a Zen driver.

I feel a lot better for it too - less stressed.  Wife is happier as a passenger too.  

All in all, it's improved me as a driver, I think.

I'm a surprisingly zen driver on the roads. I don't get wound up and waft around mostly.

I do drive 'too fast' though... Minimize risk of being caught by only doing it when there's good visibility and when you're 100% on with the task in hand. Don't bully other cars and if someone is going quicker than you, back off, let them go about their journey. You never know... Healthy paranoia is good for the habitual speeder.

Oh and don't drive like an arse in traffic or built up areas.

[juansolo]

I dislike speed cameras and the whole 'speed kills' propaganda. Speed doesn't kill, I regularly go double the speed limit (on a race track) and am not dead nor has anyone died as a result of my speed. Inappropriate speed kills, driving without due care and attention kills, driving like a w**ker with no regard for the conditions or other road users kills. Speed in itself does not kill. Sadly speed cameras cannot police driving standards...

I know what you're saying, but the sad truth is that driving like a w**ker at 15mph isn't going to get many people killed, whereas driving like a w**ker at twice the speed that everyone else on the road is doing carries a higher risk.

I stick to the speed limits on the whole, especially 30s and 40s. I've even started driving less than 70 on the motorway, not for safety (because that wouldn't make it safer!!), but because now I've switched from a 1.4L petrol Renault Clio to a 1.6L diesel bluemotion Passat estate, I can get over 70 miles to the gallon on my 150mile-a-day commute!
I hope I'm a courteous driver... Nothing winds me up more than cretins who don't pull over to the left when they're not overtaking. Had some muppet the other day on a 4 lane stretch of the M25 who entered the motorway in front of me, then pull out across the two empty left hand lanes into the 3rd lane of 4. At 55mph. :/ Those are the people who should be being sent on courses!!!

Speed is a factor, of course, but speed on it's own isn't neccessarily. Driving beyond your ability might be the cause, the speed you're travelling will determine the ultimate severity of the accident. What I'm saying is that a w**ker at 30mph (the speed limit) can be more dangerous than an alert competant driver at 40mph and cameras simply don't take that into account. Where as coppers could. They could give you a slap across the wrist if you were being naughty but in a safe environment, or come down on you hard if you were driving like a tosspiece but not neccessarily speeding.

Essentially I'd like to see the revenue machines replaced by cops. I'd rather take my chances with them even though I'm more likely to be caught by them... They can catch people driving under the influence who might not be speeding for example. The concentration on speed alone and ignoring everything else (while cutting down the number of traffic units), IMO is the worst thing solution they could have come up with. As soon as you make it about money, that's when the system will be abused.

[MrBump]

I dislike speed cameras and the whole 'speed kills' propaganda. Speed doesn't kill, I regularly go double the speed limit (on a race track) and am not dead nor has anyone died as a result of my speed. Inappropriate speed kills, driving without due care and attention kills, driving like a w**ker with no regard for the conditions or other road users kills. Speed in itself does not kill. Sadly speed cameras cannot police driving standards...

I know what you're saying, but the sad truth is that driving like a w**ker at 15mph isn't going to get many people killed, whereas driving like a w**ker at twice the speed that everyone else on the road is doing carries a higher risk.

I stick to the speed limits on the whole, especially 30s and 40s. I've even started driving less than 70 on the motorway, not for safety (because that wouldn't make it safer!!), but because now I've switched from a 1.4L petrol Renault Clio to a 1.6L diesel bluemotion Passat estate, I can get over 70 miles to the gallon on my 150mile-a-day commute!
I hope I'm a courteous driver... Nothing winds me up more than cretins who don't pull over to the left when they're not overtaking. Had some muppet the other day on a 4 lane stretch of the M25 who entered the motorway in front of me, then pull out across the two empty left hand lanes into the 3rd lane of 4. At 55mph. :/ Those are the people who should be being sent on courses!!!

Speed is a factor, of course, but speed on it's own isn't neccessarily. Driving beyond your ability might be the cause, the speed you're travelling will determine the ultimate severity of the accident. What I'm saying is that a w**ker at 30mph (the speed limit) can be more dangerous than an alert competant driver at 40mph and cameras simply don't take that into account. Where as coppers could. They could give you a slap across the wrist if you were being naughty but in a safe environment, or come down on you hard if you were driving like a tosspiece but not neccessarily speeding.

Essentially I'd like to see the revenue machines replaced by cops. I'd rather take my chances with them even though I'm more likely to be caught by them... They can catch people driving under the influence who might not be speeding for example. The concentration on speed alone and ignoring everything else (while cutting down the number of traffic units), IMO is the worst thing solution they could have come up with. As soon as you make it about money, that's when the system will be abused.

Thing is, it's that illusion of competence that's often the issues - the idea that there are "bad" drivers out there that need to be sorted out, while I'm a "good" driver, chugging along as I always do at 33 mph on the local roads that I've driven along for the last decade.

I don't want to sound preachy, but that's all part of the problem.  Everyone believes that they drive within their limits.  Everyone believes that it's everyone else that's at fault.

It's a personal thing, I guess - but it has been a real wake up call for me.  Will I slip back in to bad habits?  Not sure.  But I think not.  It's almost like I've been given permission to drive with more care and attention, and at the moment I feel reluctant to give that up.

[Modular1]

I got caught doing 105 on the A1 last year. They didn't let me just do the speed awareness course. $%&#ers.

[MrBump]

I got caught doing 105 on the A1 last year. They didn't let me just do the speed awareness course. $%&#ers.

Umm... I'm not surprised...

[nfe]

I got caught doing 105 on the A1 last year. They didn't let me just do the speed awareness course. $%&#ers.

Good. i hope they didn't let you keep a license.

[JJretroTONEGOD]

I got caught doing 105 on the A1 last year. They didn't let me just do the speed awareness course. $%&#ers.

Good. i hope they didn't let you keep a license.

+100

[Modular1]

You will be pleased to know I got off extremely lightly. Can I just state for the record that I don't think it was big or clever and I don't drive like that anymore.

[juansolo]

There's a lot of people who make progress responsibly and risk getting caught by a camera. Conversely there are just as many people that drive without due care and attention (covers everything from phones, being distracted, not concentrating on the job at hand, etc) who get ignored. It's more likely that you were unlucky.

Driving standards as a whole in the UK are pants. In comparison to some of the rest of the EU we're bloody brilliant. But that's not the point. By our standards we're shitee and we know it. I'd rather something was done about that than the blanket speed kills campaign, which only targets a single factor and IMO the wrong one.

As soon as revenue is made from it, it gets abused. You just have to go to Sheffield for example to see miles and miles of two and three lane carriageway that was once a national speed limit, dropped to 50mph and dotted with cameras. THAT I take exception to. Stick them outside schools, in built up areas, in quiet villages. I have no issue as if you're going fast there you get all you deserve. To put them in the middle of nowhere on clear roads at prime overtaking positions is taking the piss big style.

[puma_21]

Wow they still do camera tickets for you guys? Here in the great north they have banned the ability for police to charge people based on the reading of automated machines...so instead we get "reminder" letters in the mail :)

[MrBump]

As soon as revenue is made from it, it gets abused. You just have to go to Sheffield for example to see miles and miles of two and three lane carriageway that was once a national speed limit, dropped to 50mph and dotted with cameras. THAT I take exception to. Stick them outside schools, in built up areas, in quiet villages. I have no issue as if you're going fast there you get all you deserve. To put them in the middle of nowhere on clear roads at prime overtaking positions is taking the piss big style.

Maybe.  But road interventions are expensive - signs, cameras, traffic calming etc.  Signs and cameras generally appear after accidents - that's a pretty well established local authority policy.  So where a track of dual carriage way suddenly drops to a 50/40/30, it's generally because there have been substantial numbers of accidents there.

[juansolo]

As soon as revenue is made from it, it gets abused. You just have to go to Sheffield for example to see miles and miles of two and three lane carriageway that was once a national speed limit, dropped to 50mph and dotted with cameras. THAT I take exception to. Stick them outside schools, in built up areas, in quiet villages. I have no issue as if you're going fast there you get all you deserve. To put them in the middle of nowhere on clear roads at prime overtaking positions is taking the piss big style.

Maybe.  But road interventions are expensive - signs, cameras, traffic calming etc.  Signs and cameras generally appear after accidents - that's a pretty well established local authority policy.  So where a track of dual carriage way suddenly drops to a 50/40/30, it's generally because there have been substantial numbers of accidents there.

Usually caused by people not paying attention... Slowing people down only reduces the severity of the accident and does not address the cause.

[MrBump]

As soon as revenue is made from it, it gets abused. You just have to go to Sheffield for example to see miles and miles of two and three lane carriageway that was once a national speed limit, dropped to 50mph and dotted with cameras. THAT I take exception to. Stick them outside schools, in built up areas, in quiet villages. I have no issue as if you're going fast there you get all you deserve. To put them in the middle of nowhere on clear roads at prime overtaking positions is taking the piss big style.

Maybe.  But road interventions are expensive - signs, cameras, traffic calming etc.  Signs and cameras generally appear after accidents - that's a pretty well established local authority policy.  So where a track of dual carriage way suddenly drops to a 50/40/30, it's generally because there have been substantial numbers of accidents there.

Usually caused by people not paying attention... Slowing people down only reduces the severity of the accident and does not address the cause.

Absolutely.  But people are generally cr@p, and can't be told.  There's no magic wand to make people better, so the only possible course of action is to hit the lowest common denominator - enforce lower speeds. 

I've always considered myself to be a good driver.  Like most blokes, I consider myself slightly better than the average.  But I KNOW historically how much I used to speed, tailgate, take stupid risks.  Reducing the speed that I use on the roads definitely makes me a safer driver, so I've got to assume it does the same for other drivers.

[jpfamps]

e =1/2mv^2

The number of people killed on British roads is now at a virtual all time low; amazingly more people were killed per year in the 30s than now.

Obviously improvements safety features in car contributes to this, but also the imposition of speed restrictions has co-incided with reductions in fatalities.

The "Lake Wobegon" attitude towards one's own driving ability is intellectually indefensible; yes of course you are a better than average driver (like everybody else); however if you are in a collision (obviously not your fault, no not you, I'm a really good driver) then you (and indeed anyone else) are less likely to be injured seriously if the collision occurs at a lower velocity.

[juansolo]

Yep, agree with that.

My issue with the whole speed debate is that we are not addressing the problem, which is driving standards. That boils down to poor driver training. We're trained to pass a test, not how to drive. There's no motorway training and no vehicle dynamics training for a start (why skid pan training isn't a mandatory part of the test is beyond me). Then there's an over all lack of attention due to an over reliance on road furniture, traffic control, sat nav, all telling us what to do and people getting used to not actually thinking for themselves when it comes to driving.

Speed is a factor, yes. It's the quick win. It's not the cause though, and continuing to only focus on speed is going to eventually become less and less effective. We should in effect, be able to drive faster on our motorways for example. That's the whole point of them, to get places as quickly and efficiently as possible. But our over all standards; driving, observation, common courtesy, etc are just not up to it.