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Author Topic: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...  (Read 16447 times)

ericsabbath

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 06:59:16 AM »
I'm pretty sure mules can get VERY close
at least the neck pickup does that really well
I remember _tom_ had some nice videos years ago playing some old  school Guns with a mule loaded Epiphone LP Custom, but I think he pulled those out of youtube

the neck rebel yell is pretty close to the neck cold sweat, according to Tim
and the cold sweat is definitely hotter and tighter sounding than slash's neck tone
didn't play the emerald, but I suppose it's also on the medium hot ballpark
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2012, 07:13:38 AM »
Sounds to me like an Emerald bridge and Mule neck is the way to go on this one  :D
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

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ericsabbath

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2012, 08:23:12 AM »
both riff raff and mule can do this pretty easily through proper amps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJYtwWq3pA

I wouldn't go hotter than that, unless I had an unboosted stock super lead or 2203
note that his amps have a ton of gain on tap and sometimes he also adds about 16db of clean boost in front of the amp with a mxr custom audio boost/line driver (guess that's mostly for the solos)
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Alex

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2012, 11:57:06 AM »
Long story short: pickups are just a part of Slash' sound. We're talking ESP here, he's plays a Gibson, then pedals, amp, settings, cabs etc. And as Philly says: the hands of the master.

Yes, the Eclipse is tighter in the low end and has a more focused tone with more/faster attack in general. My amp's pretty flexible; the biggest problem is that the current EMGs don't really allow a Slash sound. I don't want to sound 100% like Slash, but getting closer would be good.

I read an interview from the Donots and the one guitar player swear by ESP Eclipses, but he has put Häussel PAFs in them and said it brings out the wood character more in the guitars and you can hear every string really nicely. As I understand that is something that the Seymour Duncan Alnico Pros excel in too, bringing clarity to each string. From my experience, sometimes SDs can get a bit thin/harsh in the top end, whereas even brighter BKP don't do that, so I am wondering what BKP would fit well.

The Mule sounds like the obvious choice, but I'm worried it might be too bright. I've pretty much ruled out the RiffRaff and Rebel Yell.
I was wondering how the Stormy Mondays and the PG Blues compare to the SD Alnico Pro, and how they fare with gain.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog

darrenw5094

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2012, 01:55:40 PM »
Can't see the Mules being too bright, seem very nicely balanced. Surely Slash can be coaxed out of them.

PG Blues never get mentioned for this kind of tone. Gary Moore used them in one of his last shows in Dublin, with the guys from Thin Lizzy. Check it out on Youtube.
BKP: Abraxas - Les Paul
Holy Diver - Charvel
Mule - Les Paul
Rebel Yell - Les Paul
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Emerald - Les Paul
Warpig - Caparison Horus

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2012, 02:00:27 PM »
I always loved Gary Moore's tone as it had that lovely PAF tone with plenty of articulation, even with good levels of gain so I imagine the PG Blues would be at least worthy of consideration. I have no idea if he's using BKP in this particular clip but I'd never miss an opportunity to celebrate the man's genius  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiuQ1EbrT94&playnext=1&list=PL121326F1988E0112&feature=results_video

BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Philly Q

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2012, 02:20:21 PM »
The Mule sounds like the obvious choice, but I'm worried it might be too bright. I've pretty much ruled out the RiffRaff and Rebel Yell.
I was wondering how the Stormy Mondays and the PG Blues compare to the SD Alnico Pro, and how they fare with gain.

I still haven't tried the Mule, but reports vary as to its brightness - some do say it's bright, but looking at it objectively it's a classic PAF with a bit more power than the Stormy Mondays so it really should do what you want.  And the AIV magnets will soften the sharper edge you'd find with the Riff Raff.

I really do suspect you'll find the Stormy Mondays (and the similar PG Blues) a little tame for hard rock applications, without the assistance of the huge rigs the likes of Slash and Gary Moore use(d).
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

darrenw5094

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »
I always loved Gary Moore's tone as it had that lovely PAF tone with plenty of articulation, even with good levels of gain so I imagine the PG Blues would be at least worthy of consideration. I have no idea if he's using BKP in this particular clip but I'd never miss an opportunity to celebrate the man's genius  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiuQ1EbrT94&playnext=1&list=PL121326F1988E0112&feature=results_video



Not sure about your link above, but this show in Dublin is a LP with PG Blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJnqAx5N9Y

On the subject of his huge rig, Marshall DSL2000 and modest pedals, even some cheapo Digitech overdrive. :)
BKP: Abraxas - Les Paul
Holy Diver - Charvel
Mule - Les Paul
Rebel Yell - Les Paul
VHII - PRS CU22
Emerald - Les Paul
Warpig - Caparison Horus

Alex

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2012, 03:10:45 PM »
Ironically I really liked the strat in that video.

I think it really would need to be Mules, as they're the most versatile.
Current BKPs: Miracle Man, Nailbomb, Juggernaut, VHII
Past BKPS: Holy Diver, Trilogy Suite, Sinner, Black Dog

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2012, 06:31:38 PM »
I know what you mean about the Mules as it was my first choice in this thread but a few people don't seem to think it has enough poke for the Slash tone so might the Abraxas be a better option based on the idea that it's a bit of an overwound Mule?
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

ericsabbath

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2012, 06:45:44 PM »
well.. there's the black dog and vhII
both are also alternative versions of how an overwound mule could be
I don't think the mule would be excessively bright, though
the black dog does a lot of guns stuff, but it sounds meatier than slash
some of his live stuff did sound like something a vhII would do really well
I wouldn't go 43 awg
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Brow

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2012, 07:15:51 PM »
I have a pair of standard Alnico IV Mules with 300k pots in my Gibson Les Paul Standard and they're not overly bright at all. That guitar will cover pretty much any style you can throw at it, amp depend obviously.

I really don't understand why people are saying that Mules etc lack poke compared to the A2Ps; they're actually wound hotter and are more neutral in every frequency than the A2Ps are, so in that respect they may still not do what the OP is asking. Every bridge version I've ever used of the standard A2P has sounded really thin and anaemic.

Slash actually has his own custom version of the A2Ps now that are wound slightly hotter as he finds the bridge pickup a bit lacking and thin. These new versions are meant to get closer to the tone he gets from the Derrig (sp?) Les Paul.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 07:49:32 PM by Brow »
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Philly Q

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2012, 10:26:08 PM »
Slash actually has his own custom version of the A2Ps now that are wound slightly hotter as he finds the bridge pickup a bit lacking and thin. These new versions are meant to get closer to the tone he gets from the Derrig (sp?) Les Paul.

That reminds me of how thin the Gibson 490T, another AII bridge pickup, sounded in a couple of SGs I've owned.  I think it's definitely better to go with something just that little bit hotter, and with AIV or AV (especially for the bridge pickup)
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 12:09:02 AM »

I wouldn't go 43 awg


Why not?

I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't understand the technicalities of it but I'd like to understand a bit more. I can see on the website that some pickups use 42AWG while others use 43AWG but I have no idea what that means in terms of how it affects tone. Could anyone enlighten me?
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

ericsabbath

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Re: If I wanted more of a Slash sound from my ESP Eclipse...
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 02:21:41 AM »
simply because they sound and feel different from 42 awg wound pickups
43 awg pickups with medium 10k-13k tend to sound bright and thin and going over 14k makes everything NOT paf sounding

the black dog and neck cold sweat are 42.5 polysol and they already feel different from 42 awg enamel models
technically, the only difference between the neck cold sweat and the bridge riff raff is the wire
same dc resistance, short alnico 5 magnet, symmetrical coils
in the bridge, they share a lot in common, but the riff raff sounds vintagey and the cold sweat simply doesn't

and going up to 43 awg makes a lot of diference, specially considering you have to get the dc up to tame the top end and fill the mids back (thinner wire = bigger resistance = less turns = less bass and mids and more treble)
and the hotter they're wound, further they get from the PAF ballpark

using softer sounding magnets like alnico 2, 3, 4, "isotropic" unoriented alnico 5 will tame things down but still won't make a hot wound pickup sound like a paf wound model
a bridge abraxas surely has a lot in common with a mule, but just can't sound the same
the nailbomb also has something in common with both riff raff and VHII... it's a different sound, but you can tell where it came from

and that's why we have so many options
if hotter wound pickups could sound like a paf model just by rolling off the knobs, we wouldn't be limiting our guitars to low output models, as we could have a lot more versatile guitars with hotter pickups that could do anything

and obviously, there's a reason slash prefers the alnico 2 pros
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat