manhattans not doing it for me? any advice?

[add4]

Thanks for your advices!
we're talking about neck only here.

so it's abraxas if i want a hot output, and mules to be softer.
Is that correct to assume that the abraxas has an output like les paul pickups, a little hotter than the classic 57 which would be similar to the mules?

[Deafcat64]

The output of the two (Abraxas & Mule) neck pickups isn't very close. 7.3 for the Mule, and 7.4 for the Abraxas. It may not be a noticeable difference.

['Ash' J. Williams]

You want a SM neck or better, a non reversed PG Blues.
That's what Tim recommended me when i said i was after a great open, dynamic and precise jazz neck tone but didn't want the mellowness, sweet and tamed characteristics of the Manhattan.

Also

i'm looking for a classic 57 with more dynamics and 'openness', less boomy in the bass, a little more bright, more precision

That IS the SM imo.

My father used Classic 57 for years and was delighted with the SM.
This entire album was recorded using SM in a 82 LP Custom (maple neck/ebony board) through a Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber and alnico Jensen speaker.
http://www.deezer.com/fr/music/paride-canestraro-quintet/blues-for-django-490528

[HTH AMPS]

The output of the two (Abraxas & Mule) neck pickups isn't very close. 7.3 for the Mule, and 7.4 for the Abraxas. It may not be a noticeable difference.

They are voiced quite different though, I've had both of these neck pickups in my Les Paul.  The Mule neck was creamier and hotter than the Abraxas neck.  The Abraxas neck is quite bright with less output than the Mule neck, I liked it for it's almost single-coil type clarity. 

Depends on what you want it for.  The Abraxas will get fatter if you roll the tone down, but the Mule won't be as clear - it's more about that creamy blues tone. 

Overall I prefer the MQ neck, it's very clear and cleans up great.  With the tone rolled off it can get nice and fat.

For jazz though, its a tough call.

[add4]

since i'm playing a lot of single notes  or 2-3 note chords in a full band context, i think it's better to retain some fatness to the sound . my primary problem with the manhattan is that it doesn't cut so well in a band situation.

i think all p90 could have that. what are your thoughts/experience with that?

[Fourth Feline]

The M.Qs are much more assertive than the Manhattans, and I gather ( from one of the 'old hands' on here )  that they sound somewhat fatter and less gritty than a standard P90. I once described the M.Qs as being  "Certainly not shy in the showers... ".

I have not gigged them, but have of course had other B.K.P pickups to compare them to. They give an even thicker sound about 2mm from the underside of the strings, and yet retain clarity.  At about 2.5 - 3mm from the underside of the ( fretted) strings is a very nice  Larry Carlton ( Sapphire Blues band era )  '335' tone to my ears. much clearer in fact,  with the ability to confidently push the amp if needed .  As I mentioned in another thread, they sound even nicer in my 335 copy , than in a fully hollow, although, to be fair to the M.Qs,  I want a really open / sweet sounds from my fully hollows ; hence them having Stormy Mondays and Manhattans in them.   I put Mules in a Les Paul, as it would be rude not to !  :)

I would use the M.Qs in my 335 copy, if ever gigging again in a loud, seven piece Blues/Soul/ 50s R&B band / context.

[add4]

You want a SM neck or better, a non reversed PG Blues.
That's what Tim recommended me when i said i was after a great open, dynamic and precise jazz neck tone but didn't want the mellowness, sweet and tamed characteristics of the Manhattan.

Also

i'm looking for a classic 57 with more dynamics and 'openness', less boomy in the bass, a little more bright, more precision

That IS the SM imo.

My father used Classic 57 for years and was delighted with the SM.
This entire album was recorded using SM in a 82 LP Custom (maple neck/ebony board) through a Mesa Boogie Studio Caliber and alnico Jensen speaker.
http://www.deezer.com/fr/music/paride-canestraro-quintet/blues-for-django-490528

thanks for your answer.
Unfortunately, that is exactly the sound that i'm trying to avoid. i know this is the 'traditional' jazz sound. but i'm looking for a much more modern sound, inspired by rock, with higher output.

I think that might come from the hollow mids in the SM, and that i sould go for a pickkup with more mids, like the mule maybe.

Nice playing by the way, i'm playing gypsy jazz in my acoustic guitarist life too :)

[add4]

The M.Qs are much more assertive than the Manhattans, and I gather ( from one of the 'old hands' on here )  that they sound somewhat fatter and less gritty than a standard P90. I once described the M.Qs as being  "Certainly not shy in the showers... ".

I have not gigged them, but have of course had other B.K.P pickups to compare them to. They give an even thicker sound about 2mm from the underside of the strings, and yet retain clarity.  At about 2.5 - 3mm from the underside of the ( fretted) strings is a very nice  Larry Carlton ( Sapphire Blues band era )  '335' tone to my ears. much clearer in fact,  with the ability to confidently push the amp if needed .  As I mentioned in another thread, they sound even nicer in my 335 copy , than in a fully hollow, although, to be fair to the M.Qs,  I want a really open / sweet sounds from my fully hollows ; hence them having Stormy Mondays and Manhattans in them.   I put Mules in a Les Paul, as it would be rude not to !  :)

I would use the M.Qs in my 335 copy, if ever gigging again in a loud, seven piece Blues/Soul/ 50s R&B band / context.

Thanks for your advice, fourth feline, i know your opinion is valuable.
I'm worried about having too muhc highs and 'clear' sound from a P90.

I put a seymour duncan 59 (bridge) in my 335 (neck position, yeah i'm a pirate, fear me!) yesterday, just to give it a try. i find it a bit loose and unprecise in the bass, and the bass also have a 'whooph' thing that i dont' love.
But this is much closer ot the sound i'm trying to achieve than the manhattans, maybe is lacks a bit of fatness and weight.

[WeAreNotGentlemen]

I put a seymour duncan 59 (bridge) in my 335 (neck position, yeah i'm a pirate, fear me!) yesterday, just to give it a try. i find it a bit loose and unprecise in the bass, and the bass also have a 'whooph' thing that i dont' love.
But this is much closer ot the sound i'm trying to achieve than the manhattans, maybe is lacks a bit of fatness and weight.

This might sound odd, but in my thick, mahogany solidbody, the SD '59 jazz neck tone was nothing compared to my Blackhawk jazz tone. The BH is a much more articulate, focused, and modern, higher output tone. It has sweeter highs, but still this edge and body that makes it weighty on every note. You might get laughed at for the looks, but you can laugh at them for the sound!

[add4]

I put a seymour duncan 59 (bridge) in my 335 (neck position, yeah i'm a pirate, fear me!) yesterday, just to give it a try. i find it a bit loose and unprecise in the bass, and the bass also have a 'whooph' thing that i dont' love.
But this is much closer ot the sound i'm trying to achieve than the manhattans, maybe is lacks a bit of fatness and weight.

This might sound odd, but in my thick, mahogany solidbody, the SD '59 jazz neck tone was nothing compared to my Blackhawk jazz tone. The BH is a much more articulate, focused, and modern, higher output tone. It has sweeter highs, but still this edge and body that makes it weighty on every note. You might get laughed at for the looks, but you can laugh at them for the sound!

I can imagine that..
i am certain that the duncan 59 is really bad compared to as BKP, that's why i'm considering changing for a BKP, voiced in a way that i appreciate.
However since i can only buy one (and i already shouldn't afford it it i was reasonable, ... ) i am trying to find a god match.
That's also why i'd love swapping my manhattan for a mule neck for example (hint .. :) )
The seymour 59 is voiced in a way that i like .. it has a slightly dirty sound in it that i like too, but it's not precise, well defined, and open like i would like it to be.

[add4]

For your information, I just ebayed a neck emerald, one of my friend , pro jazz player, has it and it soudns awesome for what i want to play.
I'll keep you updated about this.

[Telerocker]

I can testify that Mules are very nice for jazzy tones too. The inbetween position and the neck are full with a lot of depth and dynamics, but crispy at the the same time. And I like the nearly perfect balance of Mules. Mine are in an all mahogany bolt-on Saint Blues Mississippi Bluesmaster.