Looking to be schooled on Eminence Speakers by anyone in the know

[Brow]

Hey guys.

Sorry for the upcoming long post.

I'm basically looking for a new pair of speakers for my Zilla Cabs Fatboy 2x12 to replace the 2 V30s currently in it.

The V30s work ok with my Splawn Quick Rod, I think it's more compressed voicing smoothes out some of the mid spike of the V30s, but with the SLO Clone (stock with 2x 5881s) they're pretty much unbearable at anything above 2 on the volume control as the treble increases along with volume and I just can't seem to tame the shrillness at anything approaching band volumes.

Both are Mid heavy amps with a good whack of Treble too. The Quick Rod is bright but not shrill at all with the V30s in this cab or the CL80 in my 1x12 whereas the SLO is ok with the CL80 but will rip your face off at anything above 2 with the V30s. The Quick Rod is more compressed sounding whereas the SLO is very 'open' sounding. Both imo are takes on similar tones but approached from different angles.

I'm looking to replace the V30s with 2 Eminences and have been thinking of the following combos:

2x Legend V12s - Soldano themselves use a 16ohm version of these speakers in their own cabs so I'm sure they'd be a great fit for the SLO. Not so sure about the Quick Rod though as I haven't come across anyone that uses them with that amp.

Legend V12/Legend GB12 combo - This to me seems like it'd be a good combo as it gives some of the more modern voicing of the V12 along with some of the Greenback type voicing of the GB12. Eminence told me it'd be a good fit tonally but they'd advise against it as this combo would only give me 100w total power handling and may not be enough for the 100w Splawn.

2x Legend GB12s or 2x Private Jacks - Greenbacks are 1 type of speaker that I seem to read a lot about as matching up really well with both QRs and SLOs. The speaker used by most people with Splawns is called a Small Block which is an Eminence speaker based on the Private Jack that they modify specifically for Splawn. Again Eminence told me it'd be a good fit tonally but they'd advise against it as this combo would only give me 100w total power handling and may not be enough for the 100w Splawn.

Wizard/Governor combo - I'd never thought about this combo but this is what Anthony at Eminence recommended when I emailled them. From what I gather it's their take on the V30/G12H30 combo but without the mid spike of the V30s. This seems like a combo of speakers that alot of people use with many different amps and alot of different styles of music. A good friend of mine that used to use a Quick Rod thinks this combo may be too bright but he said he's in the minority as most people seem to like it.

Wizard/Swamp Thang - This is what my friend mentioned above suggested I look into as he thinks it'd be a better fit for the QR. He hates SLOs though so wasn't interested in anything that'd fit that as well. My other friend that actually built my SLO for me has used Swamp Thangs in the past and thinks they'd be too bassy with that amp. He doesn't have much experience with the QR though so isn't sure how they'd work for that.

I've also recently been made aware of Tonespotters, a G12-65 variant I think?, that I think could fit both amps but haven't looked into them in too much detail yet.

So basically my questions are: does anyone have experience of both amps I've mentioned and if so what speakers do you find work well with both? Do you have any experience with any of the combos I mentioned above and what did you think to them? Any other combos I should look into?

Dave_mc has some Emis coming through too so am asking for help from all angles!  :lol:

I know this is quite a specific question amp wise so am not expecting too much in the way of replies but thought I'd give it a go :lol:

I mainly play 70s and 80s Rock with various Strats/LPs/Teles/PRS CU22/Eggle/Flying V/Ibanez/BC Rich Guitars with BKPs, a Firebird with Dimarzios and a Jackson Dinky with Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz (although that may likely change).

Again sorry for the long post and if I've asked stuff that's been asked many times before.

Thanks.

Craig

[blackie]

I'll tell you about the V12 and GB12.
I use a Soldano avenger so it might have similar voicing to your sloclone...

Firstly,as I realised,eminence speakers don't seem to color your tone as much as celestions...
Personally I don't like that...I like coloration and speaker distortion...

As for the speakers:
V12:I didn't like it at all...it is very bassy,I guess that's why Mike Soldano uses them with the trembly SLO...It created a preety balanced sound,never distorts but it's damm dull...lifeless and lacks dynamics...
GB12:Supposed to be eminences take on greenbacks...not quite the case if you ask me...the thing with greenbacks it's the speaker distortion...that cannot happen to GB12 as it's 50W...also due to the wattage it has more bass than the greenback and less treble...I would describe it as a g12-65...It's a good speaker though!!!!! it has a nice woody tone and crunches nice...

I currently use a 4x12 with WGS green berets and I wouldn't change 'em for any eminence...but eminence makes good speakers,it's a matter of taste and how much you want coloration to your main sound...

[Copperhead]

Rubbish.  :D

I use the Legends V12-16 in a 4x12 cab, and they're great.
A little stiff until they are broken in. They excel at medium to very high volume.
Don't expect them to come to life until you are moving some air.

I did not like them in my 2x12 cab, wired for 8 ohm.
For that cab, I use two SwampThang 8's wired for 16.
This cab is used for lower to medium volume venues.
The SwampThangs give me the same sort of feel at a lower volume that the Legends do when blasting.

The Governors have a weird mid spike like V-30's, I would avoid them like the brown acid, unless you're into that sort of thing....  :lol:

[dave_mc]

your guess is as good as mine as to when the eminences actually come :lol: Plus as i said in PMs, not much point in cancelling the order as blue aran is out of the gb12 and v12 at the moment too :(

Just when you mentioned the greenback/g12h30 combination, I think i remember that sounded pretty good with the jet city. It's a mellower tone, so that helped. I think- I've tried so many recently that my head's spinning.

That wouldn't be high enough wattage capacity for the SLO or quick rod, though, you'd have to look into other manufacturers (and then you're into the "but do they sound the same as a greenback and g12h30?" problem).

Not sure i'd go with that swamp thang combo- i haven't tried the wizard, and maybe that combo balances out really well, but certainly the swamp thang on its own is very american-sounding, and very deep in the bass. Not sure it's what you're after if you want a hot-rodded marshall type of tone. Don't get me wrong- it's a nice speaker. Just depends on what type of tone you want.

The other problem with mixing speakers, it's a bit of a risk... it can sound awesome or terrible. :lol:

EDIT: I haven't tried the tonespotter or the g12-65 unfortunately, so I can't help you with those ones.

[djl]

Wizard is a great speaker. Massively efficient and therefore loud. Takes a while to break in, and can sound a little harsh when new. Much louder that equivalent celestion in my opinion, but I haven't directly A/B'ed.

[dave_mc]

the one thing i'd say regarding the jet city (and whether or not this relates to the "proper" soldano version, I don't know) is that all the celestions i tried with it (bar maybe the two v30s alone, which were very strident, as you found out yourself) sounded pretty good, but none really sounded perfect. It's like there was always something missing, it was "good" but not "great". Whether that's just the cheaper jet city build coming through, or the cheap stock tubes, or even just my own preference/ears, I don't know. But i know someone on UG has the jet city I have and tried several speakers, and he thought the same. He thought the v12s sounded best with it (though whether or not I will remains to be seen).

To clarify- I don't think it sounded bad or anything, and you are probably well into TGP/corksniffer territory, but those were my thoughts. As opposed to my laney which sounds awesome with most of those celestions. Granted you're talking hot-rod marshall type thing versus soldano type thing, and celestions tend to be paired with marshalls, so maybe it's not surprising that the Laney was so accomodating of the celestion speakers.

[Copperhead]

Oh! - Almost forgot.... 16 ohm and 8 ohm versions of the same speaker can sound very different, as the voice coil can use different gauge and winding... also contributing to the tonal difference is the capacitance used on the OT of your amp.
In my particular case I like the 16 ohm tap on my OT no matter what. Also IMO the SwampThang 8's do sound different than the 16's...
I did not like two Legend 16s wired for 8 ohm with my amp. Did not sound or feel at all like the 4x12 16ohm cab.
Crazy, but as I stated previously, the two Swamp Thang 8's wired for 16 in the 2x12 cab behave more like the 4x12 Legend cab than two Legend V12-16's did in the same cab!!

[dave_mc]

^ that's interesting. :)

and annoying, it's hard enough to work out what you like without different impedance versions of things sounding different :lol:

[ericsabbath]

the wizard sounds great!
the gb12 is a good speaker as well, but I'd take a greenback or a weber silver bell over it by miles
not a fan of the v12, though, and I'm hating the governor in my 1x12... sounds like a tasteless cleanish v30
it just misses the teeth and the raw growly mids

[Brow]

Cheers guys! A few more speakers to look into by the looks of it!  :lol:

^ that's interesting. :)

and annoying, it's hard enough to work out what you like without different impedance versions of things sounding different :lol:

+1  I'm finding it really hard to decide what to try as it is; let alone having to factor in impedence differences too  :lol:

Wizard is a great speaker. Massively efficient and therefore loud. Takes a while to break in, and can sound a little harsh when new. Much louder that equivalent celestion in my opinion, but I haven't directly A/B'ed.

the wizard sounds great!
the gb12 is a good speaker as well, but I'd take a greenback or a weber silver bell over it by miles
not a fan of the v12, though, and I'm hating the governor in my 1x12... sounds like a tasteless cleanish v30
it just misses the teeth and the raw growly mids

The Wizard is 1 speaker that keeps getting bought up on the various forums I've posted this question on, so I think I really should consider 1 of those at some point.

Eric: In your opinion how well do you think a Governor would pair with a Wizard? Would the Wizard help with the mids that you say the Governor is missing?

[ericsabbath]

The Wizard is 1 speaker that keeps getting bought up on the various forums I've posted this question on, so I think I really should consider 1 of those at some point.

Eric: In your opinion how well do you think a Governor would pair with a Wizard? Would the Qizard help with the mids that you say the Governor is missing?

the governor is plenty of mids, but they just don't sound "right"
I had several v30's  and also the century vintage in this same 1x12 and they all sounded way better
my favorite for my amps in that cab was a celestion black shadow (supposedly a custom CL80 made for mesa) that sadly got blown in a gig (I'm gonna get a new bobbin and I'm also waiting for another mc90)
the governor has a round middy and nasal voicing like the gb12, but doesn't sound organic at all
it's not properly broken in, but I've had many brand new speakers that sounded great
the wizard was great right out of the box, even without a cabinet
the century vintage was pretty stiff as well and sounded pretty good just sitting loose in an open plywood rack with closed back (lol)

[Copperhead]

I agree Eric, I don't like Governors much at all. They can sound great with high gain, but mid gain to cleans are just annoying, as you said, "something not right in the mids" (paraphrased).

[Alex]

Lots of interesting and, err, different views in this thread.

First, 8 and 16 ohm sound different. In case of V30 the 8 ohm has the more modern sound, the 16 ohm is more Michael Schenker/AC-DC.

Second, the cab makes just as much difference as the speaker. I dare say, maybe even more. I'm therefore only moderately surprised that views on speakers often differ quite a lot.

Third, I wouldn't worry too much about choosing the different speaker, rather get one that doesn't color your sound tremendously. Speakers is a lot just another EQ slapped on your sound (crucify me for that statement if you want). It's at the end of the signal chain, after all, so all the other components have already imparted their stamp on your sound. Yes, they can be a bit different, but I found that 90% of the time it's totally in the amp's EQ area.

Fourth, all the better speakers mentioned here would do. V30, Governor, Legend V12, Black Powder and Cannabis Rex are the ones I've tried. I'd recommend the first two, as yiou can always scoop some mids, but it's easier to scoop them than add them.

[Toe-Knee]

, as yiou can always scoop some mids, but it's easier to scoop them than add them.

The soldano and splawn are pretty much all mids! But I do agree with you to an extent