Question regarding pickups as a whole..

[EffigyForgotten]

So I've read a lot and it seems when talking about how certain BKP's are for extreme metal genres, people usually say pickups like the holy diver, nailbomb, rebel yell are "tight" but not nearly as tight as the aftermath or blackhawk, yet playing with my holy diver in drop b through a 6505+ model and 808 model on my GSP my tone is literally SURGICALLY tight, not loose the slightest, which is making me wonder how tight the aftermath is? My guitar is a 25' scale PRS, mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, set neck, not usually what you would consider the tightest guitar, plus i'm using 11-56 strings tuned pretty low. Do people just exaggerate? I was thinking of getting a PRS mike mushok, which is basically the same guitar with a ebony fingerboard and 27.7 scale, and from what I've noticed baritone scale guitar are generally recommended for low tunings (like B and lower), my plan was to mod the shite out of it just like my current guitar, new nut, locking tuners, new bridge (probably a schaller hannes because they look so $%&#ing cool), and new pickups, I was thinking aftermaths with tyger covers and black bolts \m/

Really what I want to know, is how tight will this combination be? Most bands I listen to play in Drop A, which is where the guitar will mostly stay in, and most people using this pickup play "djent" AKA progressive metal, looking for the high mid djent sound, which i'm not looking for, I do dial in a lot of mids but don't want my guitar to have that "djent" sound no matter how I dial in my amp. I also curious about the black dog, which is suppose to be great for baritone guitars, and I think the lower output would probably yield great results considering I mainly play through the 6505 model, I'm also going to exchange my amp for a 6505 2x12 when I can, but some people say its not tight sounding and I don't want to lose the grind in my sound, which is mainly what I like, I'm not really interested in the warpig anymore considering I thought the duncan distortion/JB was too hot for my sound compared to my holy diver equipped guitar.

Sorry for the pointless ranting BTW.

[Kiichi]

Alright, where to start...for one tightness of your sound comes from more than just the PUs. Now the HDs are not loose from what I hear (all BKPs are pretty tight compared to other manufacturers), but even my Crawler, which is said to be like the loosest BKP, still feels tight enough for classic metal stuff and all that and beats as said most models by other manufacturers.
Thing is with BKPs the baseline for thight and loose is very high. Goes together with the "no BKP is muddy in the least" quality.
In your (and every) case things like the pedals (the 808 does a lot of tightning) the amp and how it is set and the cab make a lot of difference. Not to mention the playing.

But I can assure you that my AM is tight as shite, it is insane. Also it is bloody unforgiving.

And about djent, it really does not come from the PU as much as the player. Djent is a technique (and some ampsettings). Some PUs voicings just make executing that technique easier, but if you wanne play djent I bet you could do that with a Stormy Monday. When I play the AM it does not sound djenty in the least.

About that baritone...baritones add more lows and highs, which is why the BD is often recommended as it is very middy, so the effective result is rather balanced. Also it rocks.
The AM is also a very middy PU, so I believe both would work equally well, more of a matter of taste with the AM being very, very dry and a bit tighter (it really feels like no other PU I have ever played).
And yes baritones are better of low tunings cause as one can see from a  grand piano the lower the strings the longer they should be, basic physics really with wavelengths and such. This will results in a more defined low end cause you can either have a short string loose or a long string tightended up, the long string doing more controlled and defined movements which you can hear in the end result.

[EffigyForgotten]

Alright, where to start...for one tightness of your sound comes from more than just the PUs. Now the HDs are not loose from what I hear (all BKPs are pretty tight compared to other manufacturers), but even my Crawler, which is said to be like the loosest BKP, still feels tight enough for classic metal stuff and all that and beats as said most models by other manufacturers.
Thing is with BKPs the baseline for thight and loose is very high. Goes together with the "no BKP is muddy in the least" quality.
In your (and every) case things like the pedals (the 808 does a lot of tightning) the amp and how it is set and the cab make a lot of difference. Not to mention the playing.

But I can assure you that my AM is tight as shitee, it is insane. Also it is bloody unforgiving.

And about djent, it really does not come from the PU as much as the player. Djent is a technique (and some ampsettings). Some PUs voicings just make executing that technique easier, but if you wanne play djent I bet you could do that with a Stormy Monday. When I play the AM it does not sound djenty in the least.

About that baritone...baritones add more lows and highs, which is why the BD is often recommended as it is very middy, so the effective result is rather balanced. Also it rocks.
The AM is also a very middy PU, so I believe both would work equally well, more of a matter of taste with the AM being very, very dry and a bit tighter (it really feels like no other PU I have ever played).
And yes baritones are better of low tunings cause as one can see from a  grand piano the lower the strings the longer they should be, basic physics really with wavelengths and such. This will results in a more defined low end cause you can either have a short string loose or a long string tightended up, the long string doing more controlled and defined movements which you can hear in the end result.

Well now I know all them kids on sevenstring.org are all full of shite haha. I think i'm going to try both the aftermath and black dog, i'm very interested in the dimarzio dominion too.

[EffigyForgotten]

BTW would a cold sweat match the black dog in output? And I see they don't have a regular option for the black bolts, could I custom order to have them? Do they make a difference in sound?

Thanks for the reply.

[darkbluemurder]

BTW would a cold sweat match the black dog in output?

Black Dog bridge + Cold Sweat neck = should work. You may have to set the BD very close to the strings and back off the CS a bit.

Cold Sweat bridge + Black Dog neck = should work. You may have to set the CS a bit further away from the strings and put the BD closer to the strings.

Cheers Stephan

[ericsabbath]

the neck cold sweat has pretty close specs to the black dogs
actually, it sits between the bridge and neck black dog resistances and uses the same wire and magnet (it's supposed to be more symmetrically wound, though)
and it does pair well volume wise
the amount of midrange is pretty similar, maybe little less center mids and more upper mids than the black dog (when comparing them both in the bridge position), and also a brighter top (as expected)


voicing/output wise, it would be the equivalent thing of pairing a dimarzio paf pro in the neck with a dimarzio mo' joe in the bridge, so no big deal

I have them paired in a 70's greco les paul standard
I wouldn't pair it with a riff raff, for example, as it would overpower the bridge pickup with the extra string vibration in the neck position, but it's an almost logical natural pair for the black dog more than it is for some of the higher output models

[ericsabbath]

now about the aftermath x holy diver thing
believe me, they have similar voicings, but the aftermath has a much stronger and more sensitive response to anything
you'll hear all the harmonic scratching from your fingers moving over the strings when you're changing notes or chords
not saying the holy diver isn't tight
all bkps tend to sound pretty tight when used right (height setup, right amp, boosters...), but the aftermath and also the painkiller really stand out in that department
I personally find that a bit annoying when playing anything else than thrashy industrial and other speed metal styles
even for "djent", I prefer tight sounding pickups with a full bass response, like the miracle man or the cold sweat

[EffigyForgotten]

now about the aftermath x holy diver thing
believe me, they have similar voicings, but the aftermath has a much stronger and more sensitive response to anything
you'll hear all the harmonic scratching from your fingers moving over the strings when you're changing notes or chords
not saying the holy diver isn't tight
all bkps tend to sound pretty tight when used right (height setup, right amp, boosters...), but the aftermath and also the painkiller really stand out in that department
I personally find that a bit annoying when playing anything else than thrashy industrial and other speed metal styles
even for "djent", I prefer tight sounding pickups with a full bass response, like the miracle man or the cold sweat

The aftermath sounds similar to the EMG 81, which I like but when playing open chords the "super tight" bass response doesn't let them ring out like I want, and EMG doesn't make a neck pickup that I enjoy for any purpose.

[Alex]

Through my amp my Black Dog sounds just as tight as my Nailbomb or Miracle Man. I really think "tight" is an overused term, and very misleading.

For example the Miracle Man has a generous low end, but is considered tight! That doesn't even make sense if you read it. I think it is mostly about being transparent in the low end and having a fast bass response, which is why some Alnico II pickups are "not tight".

As others have pointed out, the amp and guitar make just as much impact.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I know exactly what Alex means. For years I was put off the Miracle Man because the term 'tight' suggests to me something that is clinical, unforgiving and lacking body. I was surprised to find that the Miracle Man is has a beautifully thick tone that has plenty body to it but it is also highly articulate. I think sometimes, as I used to, the word 'tight' is used to describe the desired tone when in fact, what is being sought is a pickup that is highly articulate. With that in mind, I wouldn't describe the Miracle Man as 'tight' at all but it is very highly articulate. Conversely, something like the Aftermath genuinely is 'tight' but then it's a lot more clinical and unforgiving than the Miracle Man.