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Author Topic: The Invictus story?  (Read 15368 times)

GuitarIv

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The Invictus story?
« on: January 20, 2013, 01:14:38 PM »
Cheers guys,

so recently I stumbled across the weird story with Invictus guitars. I got to know the brand through Facebook and Aliases (new band of former SikTh guitarist Pin) and saw their builds on their official FB page. Now first I thought to myself "those are pretty reasonable prices for a custom build" and even thought about getting one at some point, however that was just my typical G.A.S.

Being the maniac regarding guitars and gear I am, I would notice several times Misha from Periphery telling only bad things about them and I thought to myself "what an arsehole" since his word has proven to be a reputation killer or enhancer for lots of brands. Then there was this story with Vildhjarta, where they canceled their endorsement deal with Invictus stating that all they wanted were "playable guitars". I thought to myself "that's just the typical Djent fanboy talking following Mishas opinion", however after doing some research I found pics and first hand reviews that seemed to prove the negative reputation going on with the brand. Last thing I know is: every worker left the shop, leaving the owner on his own to finish the remaining builds and delve into Oblivion.

Now I also noticed some weird stuff regarding The Illustrated Luthier (Tosin form AAL owns a guitar by him) on the Sevenstring Forum (not a registered user there, just stumbled via google over it) stating that some of his guitars are rubbish.

Is this some kind of common phenomena? Luthiers claiming big price tags on builds that suck? Is there a trend for people to go DIY and sell stuff before they have the knowledge required? Don't get me wrong, I'd like to build a guitar myself one day, but I know my criteria for a good instrument and would never even think of asking for money for a build before I'm not sure I can provide a consistent and decent quality.

If anyone could clear this story up for me, that would be great.

Cheers
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 03:16:02 PM by GuitarIv »

Dmoney

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 01:22:26 PM »

Not really got much to add, but I went on the Invictus page just now and those things look like horrid Blackmachine knock offs.
I've had a little go on a blackmachine and even though they are aren't my thing, I have to say it was killer. I've only been blown away maybe once or twice when picking up an instrument in my life. These guitars just look like Blackmachine rip offs with a reverse headstock. Very unoriginal.

TheyCallMeVolume

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 02:22:30 PM »
This sucks. I've also heard about phoney pickup makers, and it's really bugging me because the name of the "company" was associated with the Allman Brothers. Damn this is gonna eat at me all day...

richard

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 02:49:46 PM »
If I was going to order a custom build guitar I would want to be absolutely certain that the luthier had an impeccable reputation. I would want to play a few examples of their work. Maybe this company has had it's problems but I saw some pictures that looked terrible. Would anyone pay money up front to these guys ? If I had the cash I'd love to look into Feline guitars but I'd still want to visit their workshop and play a few guitars before I laid any money down.

And who are the phoney pickup makers ?

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FELINEGUITARS

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 03:06:04 PM »
Interesting , but I hope the generic title of this thread isn't going to prove misleading or off-putting to  players looking for artisan built guitars.

I'm not sure what you mean by "phoney" - assembling Warmoth bits and passing off as all original work, or simply handmade guitars that just don't cut it?

There are dedicated hardworking luthiers (both here in the UK and abroad) who work hard to bring the best possible product to players.

I know my own lines follow the "updated classics" route while other makers forge ahead with their own designs.

There has definitely been a spate of Blackmachine wannabes and knockoffs emerging - possibly exacerbated by the lack of new Blackmachines that came out in the last 18 months.
I am fairly close to Doug, having been good mates for nearly 25 years, and having helped each other with the development of ideas and lending a hand to each other when needed.
Often it's nothing more than doing photography for him, other-times a bit more - we've often lent a hand in the B6 model from the outset.

I have been working closely with Doug lately - trying to give him a hand to see that in 2013 more B6 models actually make it into the hands of players.
This week I've been photographing a couple of B6s, that will get shipped off to their new homes in the next week or so.



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GuitarIv

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 03:15:22 PM »
Sorry Jonathan, I didn't mean to put anyone off, I own a custom handmade guitar myself, I love it and I know that you do your job more than well. I'll change the thread title.

All I wanted to know is if this is becoming a common phenomena, people starting a "business" without having the proper skills. It seems to me that the DIY approach is spreading across a lot of things in an age of the internet.

Btw I'd love to treat myself with a second custom guitar and there are a lot of great luthiers out there, Daemoness Guitars, Wirebird Guitars, you guys from Feline, Blackmachine, Vik Guitars, Skervesen, BlackCat, Jaden Rose and so on...

Cheers

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 03:20:47 PM »
Daemoness Guitars, Wirebird Guitars, you guys from Feline, Blackmachine, Vik Guitars, Skervesen, BlackCat, Jaden Rose and so on...

Sam who runs Wirebird is a friend who used to work for me - great skills that boy has!

I would love for them to be a guitar show that involved ALL of the UK small builders, so players could come and get hands on with some well made guitars
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GuitarIv

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 03:38:51 PM »
Yes that would be great. Actually I'm planning a trip to the UK in the future (hopefully if cash and university leave the possibility to) to check out all the workshops, play the guitars and catch some bands doing shows. I'm a big fan of the music and lutherie in the UK, Sylosis, Red Seas Fire, Exit Ten, Aliases and loads of other great artists and builders have been catching my eye for a long time by now. Oh and I love my BKPs :P

Cheers

edit: and of course Zilla Cabs! Gonna get myself a Super Fatboy asap and maybe Toe-Knee will build an amp for me (only problem everytime is cash  :? )

Dmoney

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 04:10:39 PM »
the wirebird tele style things look really really cool

Philly Q

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Re: What is it with all those phoney luthiers?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 04:16:32 PM »
All I wanted to know is if this is becoming a common phenomena, people starting a "business" without having the proper skills. It seems to me that the DIY approach is spreading across a lot of things in an age of the internet.

That is the nature of small businesses!  Anyone can set themselves up in business whether they're formally qualified, qualified by experience or not qualified at all.  Even if you are formally qualified, it doesn't guarantee you'll do a good (or honest) job.

In certain areas - lawyers, accountants, surveyors - the customer will expect to see formal qualifications, but in others, like guitar building, (a) there may be no recognised qualification and (b) experience, talent, imagination and perhaps a bit of business nous are far more important.  There's no magical point at which you have "the proper skills" - to some extent you have to assess that for yourself then let others decide on the quality and value of your work.

For a small guitar builder, success is ultimately always going to be based on the quality of their work.  Yes, some well-placed and well-designed advertising and promotion can attract initial interest, but your potential "market" is really very small and word of mouth spreads quickly.  Then you succeed, or you fail.

I doubt that many, if any, of these luthiers you're talking about are genuinely "phoney", but some will be better than others and some may be simply overestimating their own skills.  They'll be found out quickly enough.

Ultimately, no-one should be investing in a custom guitar without seeing the builder's work or at least getting very strong recommendations from people they really trust.
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Toe-Knee

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 04:04:58 PM »
I'l see if I can dig up the thread I came across a few months back regarding invictus,

It was claimed that those shoddy pictures was the first piece work done by an apprentice and the instrument was never released to the public.

There was also a lot of stuff to back this up including shining examples of Invictus builds.

I didn't pay too much attention however as the guitars held no appeal to me at all the same as all other guitars of that style they're just a bit wonky looking imho and look a touch too fragile.

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Ian Price

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 06:47:35 PM »
Whatever the story here I am pretty sure that it will not be anywhere near as mental as "rhythm in jump dancing close to you".  :wink:
I think I hate being indecisive.

Dmoney

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 06:50:26 PM »
Whatever the story here I am pretty sure that it will not be anywhere near as mental as "rhythm in jump dancing close to you".  :wink:

HA!

Andrew W

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 07:07:03 PM »
Whatever the story here I am pretty sure that it will not be anywhere near as mental as "rhythm in jump dancing close to you".  :wink:

HA!

Ah, memories...

Philly Q

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Re: The Invictus story?
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 07:21:54 PM »
Whenever I see that heading "The Invictus Story" it makes me think of some ropey sword-and-sandal gladiator series with lots of CGI bloodletting.....
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