Very excited: Uli Jon Roth Sky Academy

[Philly Q]

I can believe the "notes as colours" thing, in the sense that that's the only way I can imagine what it would be like to have perfect pitch (although of course some people are colour blind, which is also very hard to imagine!)

But I find all these approaches which claim they'll revolutionise your guitar playing (or physical fitness, or success in business, or success with women, whatever....) ultimately frustrating.  I'm hoping for some simple (effort-free) "secret", but in fact they involve either a lot of hard work, a lot of risk-taking or some kind of quasi-religious leap of faith which, deep down, I just can't buy into.  And I know that'll be the case before I even start (how defeatist is that?  :lol: )

[gwEm]

That is pretty defeatist mate(!)

At the end of the day all those tricks you mention do work for the people recommending them, since they are confident and believe in them. If you are comfortable with them then you won't be able to pull them off.

[Philly Q]

Yeah, sorry, late night rambling...!  :lol:

I went off on a rant which was nothing to do with Uli Jon Roth and his esoteric approach.  That's just a particular way of looking at music which may work for some people if they see things the same way, there's no trickery or clever salesmanship involved, as far as I can see. 

But what I did get sidetracked into ranting about (in my usual off-topic manner), you see all these things which seem to offer quick-fix, almost magical solutions to all life's problems.  Like weight-loss plans where you don't have to think about what you eat (yeah right).  And deep down you know it can't be that simple.

It's like those David L Burge Perfect Pitch courses I've seen advertised in Guitar Player for the last 30-odd years.  They used to be cassette tapes, they're probably downloads now...!  It sounds great, just imagine having perfect pitch!  And it may very well work as an approach but it will NOT be simple, it'll involve many, many hours of work.

[gwEm]

I catch your drift Philly!

[Plenum n Heather]

It sounds a lot like the master classes I have taken, in particular the one with Pat Martino. Now, I can read music, and it took all of about 3 minutes before my head was swimming -- his technique may be amazing, but Martino's concepts are all but incompresensible! He has all kinds of wacky theories, such as basing scales and modes off of hexagrams (like the ones you see in the I-Ching).

If I were anywhere near where this took place, I would have gladly gone; sometimes just being with other guitar players can be an enriching (if not at least entertaining) experience! :)

The BEST master class I have taken, where I did not end up taking my guitar from its case, was definitely the one with Carlos Alomar, Sharon Isbin, and Steve Vai. Incredible night!

[richard]

It still all comes down to your fingers on the fretboard and if you want to get better - you have to work hard. There is no secret. 

[gwEm]

It still all comes down to your fingers on the fretboard and if you want to get better - you have to work hard. There is no secret.

I do think thats absolutely the case for technique and speed.

In terms of melody and song writing, practice helps there too, but I do think there are approaches you can take which can make a big difference or give you a number of ideas without much effort.

[Philly Q]

Hard work is definitely required to acquire physical control of the instrument and to expand your repertoire.  And heaven knows I haven't put in that work....  :|

But as gwEm says, in terms of theory, songwriting etc different approaches can help for different people.  Some seem to be very intuitive - they can do what works for them and they don't care why it works.  Personally I feel the need to understand what I'm doing, so a bit of structure helps - I can't really cope with general music theory and the details of scales and modes and arpeggios, but for the guitar specifically, I do find it quite helpful to think about intervals and shapes/patterns on the fretboard.

[richard]

I do think thats absolutely the case for technique and speed.

In terms of melody and song writing, practice helps there too, but I do think there are approaches you can take which can make a big difference or give you a number of ideas without much effort.
[/quote]

True, but you still have to learn how to execute those ideas. I did many years of classical piano and the theory is not that difficult to absorb. Learning how to apply it in a musical and improvisational way is a different kettle of trout. It's hard for someone to teach you this because you were generally end up repeating THEIR ideas. I've been asked on many occasions to show someone how to play 'blues'. Piece of cake to show someone pentatonics and blues scales but I will always say that this won't really help. You have to immerse yourself in the musical form and listen to everything that's going on, not just the guitar. And this takes time and effort.

I generally advise that you listen to the singers to hear how they bend and shape similar melodic phrases over the changes.

I realise I've just contradicted myself completely by sharing a piece of advice that I believe CAN be a shortcut to understand phrasing in blues. What a pillock. 

[Lezard]

It sounds a lot like the master classes I have taken, in particular the one with Pat Martino....

Amazing player.

I was just watching one of his workshops in Russia where a group of very unfortunate people were supposed to take that stuff in via an interpreter...He has a mysterious and wonderful way of overcomplicating even the simplest concepts. I've been wondering weather this was his teaching/playing method before his aneurysm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ovfTlwpYIUM

[JimmyMoorby]

Of course practise will always improve your technique but you will always have a 'ceiling' in any technique and some people will be better at it than others.

I've always been interested in lots of music but ive been well into  the shred thing too so ive always put the hours in to get as good as i can, learning some very advanced stuff but I know listening to say Shawn Lane I cannot even comprehend what he is doing.  The man was on a different level technically, it aint some thing you 'learn' maybe its down to genetics or if you were of a religious persuasion 'God given talent but you cannot learn that shiteeee....well maybe a select few.....  but ive never heard any one.

Further to that he had his technique down by the time he was 14-16.