PRS Zach Myers Se question

[richard]

Definitely sounds like a wiring issue. I can't imagine any circumstances in which an RY bridge would sound 'mushy'. Too bright in the wrong guitar maybe but never mushy. When my RYs were installed the guy made a mistake with the wiring - not like yours but it's distinctly possible that something's been done incorrectly. Come to think of it the guy that fitted an IT bridge in my Strat had some problems with the wiring and he's a very experienced builder.

[drphibes]

One point that I forgot to mention was when the pickups where fitted a coil tap was also done so maybe this could be adding to a possible wiring problem ?
Its just odd that the guitar sounds nice clean but quite naff trying to rock the thing !!

[Kiichi]

One point that I forgot to mention was when the pickups where fitted a coil tap was also done so maybe this could be adding to a possible wiring problem ?
Its just odd that the guitar sounds nice clean but quite naff trying to rock the thing !!

To be clear here, do you mean coil split or coil tap. I assume you actually mean the coil split as that is meant most of the time (coil taps are very rare donīt think BKP actually makes those), but I wanne be sure.
A coil split is when you turn off one of the coils of the HB and are left with effectivly a SC.
A coil tap is when you turn of a part of the winding of each coil and only acces the inner part, resulting in an underwound sound.

Did you do the basic check taping on bobbins to see if only the right coils are on in each position? Seems basic, but helps rule out something.

[drphibes]

My knowledge of guitars is very low im afraid and that is why I had the store fit the pickups.
I am sure the guy asked me if I wanted coil tapping ? Maybe I misheard him but basically the guitar now gives a different tone by pulling the one of the tone knobs.
I was messing around today trying to compare my Signature str1 that has BKP Nailbomb pups with the Prs Rebel Yell fitted pups.
When on the low E string I would have thought the Rebel Yell would give a higher tone than the Nailbomb but this did not seem to be the case.
I would say the Nailbomb pup gave a clearer more defined sound when playing the low E .

I have never ventured inside the wiring of a guitar so would not really know what to look for but if you can offer any guidance I could get the screwdriver ready !!

[Kiichi]

Ok, that clears some things up. Now I know that it is a coil split which was called wrongly, as the coil tap can only be enabled by the guy winding the PUs, not the one installing them in the guitar.

What I would like to have you do to rule out some very crude wiring error is to plug your guitar in, take a screwdriver (or something similar) and use it to to gently tap on the pole pieces (the metal things on the PUs). When the PU is on you get a very distinct sound from doing that and nothing when its out.
This way you can check that in the bridge position you get those sounds from the bridge and not the neck for example.
Also you can pull the tone knob and if I am correct one only one of the two rows of pole pieces of the selected humbucker should give you a sound. To be precise the one with the screw pieces should go silent, while the flat ones still give you something.

That is a real easy test to do to rule out basic and big wiring mistakes. Good thing to know. Since I learned about it I have done it on all my wiring attempts.
Also helps you understand what which position and switch actually does.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Agreed. It's simple and basic and while there shouldn't be an error that fundamental if it's been done by a store, it wouldn't be unheard of. In the past I've had pickups fitted out of phase and in the wrong position. It could be that it's been wired so that when you have the selector switch set to the bridge pickup, you actually have the neck pickup engaged. That would certainly account for a mushier sound than you'd expect from the bridge.

Another thing you could easily do is check that the correct pickup is in the correct position. Take the backplate from the guitar and unscrew the pickups  from the front (you'll probably have to remove the strings for this or at least loosen them a hell of a lot) and then check that the wire marked 'neck' or 'bridge' in the back actually goes to the pickup in the correct position. All Bare Knuckle pickups are clearly marked 'neck' and 'bridge' or even 'middle'.

Finally, does anyone know what the situation is with pots and caps on this model guitar? I wouldn't want you to go to any further expense that wasn't needed but changing to BKP 550k pots and BKP Jensen caps could help, though I suspect the problem is more fundamental than that. One thing is sure however; it certainly can't be that the pickups are naturally mushy under gain.

 

[Kiichi]

Another thing you could easily do is check that the correct pickup is in the correct position. Take the backplate from the guitar and unscrew the pickups  from the front (you'll probably have to remove the strings for this or at least loosen them a hell of a lot) and then check that the wire marked 'neck' or 'bridge' in the back actually goes to the pickup in the correct position. All Bare Knuckle pickups are clearly marked 'neck' and 'bridge' or even 'middle'.

Agreed, though I am unsure if unscrewing the PUs will be nececary. I always hate to do that to strings. If you know which poti or which switch position corresponds to which PU, or should at least you should be able to check with just taking of the back cover and the tap test I described.
Since the tag marking bridge or neck model is usually at the end of the wire you can just see where it goes electronics whise and check if it works with the right pot and in the right switch position.
When you see the wires marked neck go to the poti that was always your bridge one and you get sound in the wrong switch position you know something is wrong.

You can always loosen the strings or take them off, but I think this could be a waste of a perfectly fine set of strings that could be avoided.


This is really basic stuff but anyone who has ever had a panic attack because his computer would not turn on and went on to waste half a day trying to fix it only to realise that the power supply was not connected knows that you gotta rule out the incredibly basic stuff you (or others) would never get wrong xD

[drphibes]

Hi

Thanks for the suggestions I will see what I can find when I get a spare minute or two.

Cheers

[drphibes]

Ok, that clears some things up. Now I know that it is a coil split which was called wrongly, as the coil tap can only be enabled by the guy winding the PUs, not the one installing them in the guitar.

What I would like to have you do to rule out some very crude wiring error is to plug your guitar in, take a screwdriver (or something similar) and use it to to gently tap on the pole pieces (the metal things on the PUs). When the PU is on you get a very distinct sound from doing that and nothing when its out.
This way you can check that in the bridge position you get those sounds from the bridge and not the neck for example.
Also you can pull the tone knob and if I am correct one only one of the two rows of pole pieces of the selected humbucker should give you a sound. To be precise the one with the screw pieces should go silent, while the flat ones still give you something.

That is a real easy test to do to rule out basic and big wiring mistakes. Good thing to know. Since I learned about it I have done it on all my wiring attempts.
Also helps you understand what which position and switch actually does.

Hi

I managed to get five minutes today and did the tapping on the pups like you suggested and the results are below

Bridge position selected - tap the Bridge (Rebel Yell) and you can hear a sound via the amp - tap the Middle (Riff Raff) and again you can hear a sound via the amp - tap the Neck (Rebel Yell) and there is no sound.

Middle position selected - This is a repeat of the results of when the Bridge position is selected, you can hear the taps from both Bridge and Middle pups and nothing from the Neck.

Neck position selected - The only sound hear is from the Neck pup, no sounds when I tap the Middle or Bridge.

Is this right or does it look like the wiring is indeed wrong ?

Thanks

[Slartibartfarst42]

That sounds wrong to me because you don't appear to have an option that just gives you the bridge pickup by itself and under quite a bit of gain, that's the pickup you want to keep things tight and clear.

[drphibes]

Just to update a little more I also did the same test pulling the tone knob out like Kiichi suggested and The results are the same.
The Neck pickup is isolated from the other Two but the Middle and Bridge do not seem to individual and joined somehow ?
I am guessing the wiring is just wrong on this guitar ?

[Slartibartfarst42]

If the tone knob being pulled out is supposed to engage a coil split but nothing changes, there's something wrong there too. If it's coil spliy you should only be getting a noise from the pole pieces but not the screws and when the knob is pushed back in you should go back to full humbucker mode and get a noise from both rows of the humbucker. It seems to me like you've solved your problem as clearly they're not wired up correctly to the switch and they're not split properly either.

[Kiichi]

Yes, that does sound very wrong. This is why this simple test is so great.
Really explains why the guitar sounds wrong.

[drphibes]

Just to update this thread.

I took the guitar to have a guy look at it for me and within a couple of minutes he knew what was wrong with it. After a 15-20 check on the wiring the guitar has now come to life and sounds superb.

Thanks for all the help .

[Kiichi]

Ah that is good to hear! Congrats! Enjoy that sound =)

Also I would love to hear some impressions now that it works (always interresting), so if you get some play time in and have time a few words would be cool.