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Author Topic: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.  (Read 14215 times)

08sg

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2013, 05:30:05 AM »
I did change the bridge and tone pots in the SG to 500K for both, and changed the wiring from "modern" to a 50's wiring scheme - zero loss of treble when you roll down the volume pot. This all combined definitely gave it more edge, and of course the SD. I like this talk of a BKP interpretation of a SD. The SD is a great sounding pickup. I just think I need a tighter, spankier, and brighter guitar for it to work best.

Today I tried yet another SG 61' reissue with the 57 classic + in the bridge. It's nowhere near the tone of the SD, but, those upper spanky mids are definitely there. 1 thing I realized, I love pushed snarling mids - that vowel sounding PEEE—OWWWNG effect of playing the A chord hard, directly over the bridge pickup.

I brought in my amp head today when I tried out the SG reissue, and my SG standard with the SD. There's this snarl that the SD has, and I'm so addicted to it, that other lesser output pickups just don't seem to feel as satisfying. I noticed that the 57 + kind of got spongy sounding as I applied more pre-amp, it's not nearly as firm, tight and immediate as the SD, but it did have some spank. The mids on the 57 + are softer, not as pushed or in your face as the SD.

I think in my fantasy world, the ideal pickup would be higher output — like the SD, but with a bit more upper mid spank, and maybe a bit less thickness to the low end, more snap and clarity basically. I still don't think it would hurt to try a few different pickups, just for reference, and probably similar in output to the SD, but maybe Alnico 5?

— This should probably be a new topic, but since we're here... I have a 2X12 Mesa Rectifier cab, on indefinite loan. It's 14--1/4in deep . It has 2 V30's in it. Could I tighten up the sound and low end with a more standard depth cab, like a baltic birch 2X12 that's the more standard 12 inches deep? I'm wondering if the WOOF I hear from the speakers can be attributed to the depth of the cab?

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2013, 07:57:17 AM »
Actually, based on that, I think you'd really like the Holydiver. I think of the Super Distortion in relation to 80s Metal, a bit like the JB and as that is the Holydiver's natural home, you should love it. When my band plays AC/DC I use the Holydiver and while not particularly 'Angus' tone, I still like it because it's thicker, smoother and has a more modern edge to it. I suspect you're much the same.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

ericsabbath

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2013, 07:06:59 AM »
the diver gets too spongy and dark sounding in SGs
seems to be only bad match for that pickup
still works for leads, but the rhythms sound dead

you seem to be resistant to try pedals
you're really missing something that's the "big secret" of 90% of the rock guitarists that are actually happy with their tones
a good booster makes a night and day difference for most setups, specially with tube amps

order a riff raff set, which is the safest and vastly proved bet for the ac/dc tone and borrow a couple pedals for some test driving

I won't recommend a tube screamer/sd-1 type overdrive pedal, as they cut lots of bass and compress the mids, but there are several other pedals that will do what you want
I used to have a vintage maxon 6 band equalizer that worked like a champ in front of my marshall
if I wanted old school metal, I just needed to cut some bass and add lots of upper mids
when I wanted a crunchy, but more fenderish tone from my les paul, I added some top end sparkle and cut lots of low mids
with 6 bands and a level control, you can go from a very subtle tweak to any extreme setting you desire (just gotta be careful with the noise level)
an OCD on moderate settings could work as well
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Slartibartfarst42

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2013, 08:17:26 AM »
The thing is, we're back to the original problem - we all know that in an SG the Riff Raff will nail those AC/DC tones but he clearly likes a pickup with a more modern voicing and more compression. To me, he IS describing, in many respects, a Holydiver but I will happily bow to your greater experience of it in an SG so what we really want is something that is kinda like a Holydiver but will work in an SG. Based on the EQ, that takes me all the way back to a Painkiller and based on my own experience, that leads me to the Miracle Man with the Cold Sweat still stuck between the two. That said, I think he has three options:

1) A Riff Raff with a good boost pedal to give him the drive of a more modern pickup.
2) A Cold Sweat with a decent EQ pedal to both boost and tailor the frequencies to his taste.
3) A Miracle Man with a decent EQ pedal to boost the upper mids a bit.

I think any of those will work a treat but while the Riff Raff is the logical choice, I can't help thinking he'd prefer either the Cold Sweat or Miracle Man. Remove the reference to AC/DC from the equation and everything else he describes suggests a contemporary pickup. Based on that, the Cold Sweat is the best option because it sits right in the middle.
BKP owned:

Bridge - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; A-Bomb; Holydiver; Miracle Man; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

Neck - Emerald; Cold Sweat; Crawler; Holydiver; Sinner; Trilogy Suite

ericsabbath

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2013, 09:35:26 AM »
I really expected the diver to sound great in the sg, as it was a very acoustically loud, resonant and rich sounding guitar
I had the same pickup in 3 les pauls, one being a brazilian copy with imbuya top
the brazilian one was very bassy and dark sounding and the holy diver sounded AMAZING in it
but in the sg, the low end sounded mushy, the top end was gone... still sounded good for leads, but quite disappointing on rhythms (for a bkp)
I think the frequency ranges were just too narrow for such a midrangy pickup
I even tried to work with the eq pedal to bring something back, but then it got too compressed instead
I remember some other forumite (maybe dmoney?) had the same impressions with the diver in some british made sg copy
probably the rebel yell would be a better match in the ballpark

I still think the cold sweat is a little too focused, even when mid-boosted, but I only tried it in les pauls and prs guitars
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

08sg

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2013, 03:39:11 AM »
Guys, I really do appreciate all your insight - I feel like I've overdone the SD topic. I can't believe the thread has gone on this long. Without over complicating things, I think I'll very likely do the Riff Raff.

I'm not against pedals, I'm just such a straight ahead player that I'm a bit afraid of them. I know they're basic, especially something with a clean boost, or the Maxon you mentioned. I've used a few different ones, borrowed from friends, I've just found that nothing sounds as transparent and ballsy as the guitar plugged straight into the amp.

With that said though, I really like the BKP video, "covered VS uncovered". The Riff Raff did have nice snappy mid and upper mids, and I'd likely sacrifice some low end for more mid/upper mid clarity, spank and some jangle. I just want a boost pedal that won't introduce hum or noise into the signal, and keep the original tone of the signal, just as if the guitar is plugged into the amp - without a pedal.

So what pedal is the best - old school or new, that can make the pickup output more - like a higher output pickup? Thanks guys.

ericsabbath

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2013, 05:13:29 AM »
most overdrive/boost pedals don't produce noise in reasonable boost settings
but they do amplify the noise from the guitar along with the signal

a simple clean booster will strenghten your signal without changing the voicing, but this is kinda limited
you might feel things might get too bassy
you could try an OCD, maybe a crunch box, or a good equalizer, or some sort of preamp pedal

contact forum member juansolo
he builds all sort of custom pedals and might give you some good tips
I personally love his tube driven baby boobtube pedal
it's technically a vox stage with an unnusual tube in it, but works pretty much as a clean booster in front of the amp
it sounds warmer than a regular solid state clean booster (I also own a catalinbread picoso clone),  so you can drive your amp harder without losing the all tube feel
the guitar frequencies seem to expand instead of getting "clipped" the louder you set it, so you don't lose anything and only gets compression from the amp, not from the pedal
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Brow

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2013, 07:58:50 AM »
If we're now advising/pushing pedals, I have a lot upfor sale in the the 'Seconds Out' Room if there's anything there that takes your fancy?  :lol:
Selling lots of gear, enquire within!......

Kiichi

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2013, 12:19:42 PM »
There are many good pedals out there that can work. I can also say that Juansolo is a gentleman and a scholar, he could deffo help you out. You can get better quality stuff at lower prices than the regular mass market.
If you want an overdrive, he does an amazing Klon(e) (pedal that can be a clean boost but excells when you let is add gain too, it just gives you more of all the good stuff in your tone) and although I have not tried it the Boobtube must also be great as it has made a name for itself in the realm of DIY builders.
Sides the Klon(e) my personal favorite is the Zvex Super Hard On, a rather unique clean boost. Juansolo once made a version of that which fits on the side of a push pull poti and now resides in one of my guitars (yes, in the guitars cavity). That pedal feels like it does not just krank up the dB, but pulls everything out of the PU. Nice little bugger.

Oh and yeah in seconds out things can be found as well of course.
BKPs in use: 10th set / RY set / Holy Diver b, Emerald n / Crawler bridge, Slowhand mid MQ neck/ Manhattan n
On the sidelines: Stockholm b / Suppermassive n, Mule n, AM set, IT mid

08sg

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2013, 01:51:29 AM »
I'll definitely give some thought to contacting Juansolo for some ideas, I don't mind paying for good stuff.

Here's another bad segue...

Let's say you want to install different bridge pickups to try etc.. Could you simply do the following:

Remove my SD, cut each pickup wire at the same place, leaving about 6 or 7 inches of length
Next, strip all the single wires inside the shielded cable, twist them, pre-tin them with solder, then solder them with the metal clips into this:


Then, do the same on the other side of the wires, coming from the tone and volume pot cavity. Basically a male molex on 1 side, and a female molex on the other, then simply disconnect and reconnect any time you want to change a pickup?

Of course you'd have to mod each pickup's wires - but at least the wires coming from the cavity could just stay as they are. I know Gibson is now doing this with some of their pickups, but theirs seems over complicated. They have molex connectors inside the tone/volume control cavity.

I'm talking about this: Wires on the left from the pickup, the wires on the right from the cavity, and both molex connectors meet/join inside the PICKUP CAVITY route - not in the tone/volume pot cavity. This seems so much easier.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 01:55:03 AM by 08sg »

Kiichi

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Re: Bare Knuckles version of a DiMarzio Super Distortion.
« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2013, 10:55:52 AM »
I would not do that personally. Is a more work then just wiring them up in the regular fassion imho. Since you only got two wires I assume you are not doing anything fancy like splits or such, and when you don´t do that wiring up a HB is so easy.
Red wire goes to either the 3rd lug of a pot or the switch and the black and plain wire are twisted together and go to ground. The white and green wire are left as they come, taped together and dangling about.
And if you would ever want to wire up a split mode or something that ain´t rocket science either.

With that you would not have to butcher the PUs, keeping you from reselling or putting them in another axe shoud you ever want to do that.
BKPs in use: 10th set / RY set / Holy Diver b, Emerald n / Crawler bridge, Slowhand mid MQ neck/ Manhattan n
On the sidelines: Stockholm b / Suppermassive n, Mule n, AM set, IT mid