Does a 3 screw truss rod cover always = FAKE GUITAR?

[Brow]

Hey guys.

I'm thinking about buying a guitar as a present to myself for my 30th birthday, a bit sad I know, and I've come across 1 I quite like the look of.

On 1st appearances it all looks ok to me, not that I'm an expert on the minute details, but the serial number checks out and it also has 1 of the official cases with it, could also be faked I guess. A few things are giving me bad impressions though:

It's starting at a really low price for what it's being sold as. The seller has said in the auction that he bought it cheap himself, so that MAY have something to do with the start price. Or he may not know it's possibly a fake. It also has a 3 screw truss rod cover, which I know is usually a sign of it being a fake on Gibson style guitars.

Just wondered if anyone had any pointers for me as to other things I could look out for to possibly help me work out if it's real or not? The price tells me it's fake, but I do want to give the guy some benefit of the doubt.

Here's a few pics pics if it helps:





Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Craig

[Elliot]

I'd say its probably a fake.  Truss rod cover is not just 3 screw but also the wrong shape.  Also the control knobs look too high for me.  Normally the bridge volume control is just behind the bridge saddles - here it looks parallel (although that could be the picture). 

[Dave Sloven]

99.9% certain that this is a fake and that there's a real 2003 Gibson out there somewhere with this serial number on it.

Not sure if they had this back in 2003 but my Gibson not only has the serial and 'Made in the USA' but also has the year stamped on it, which by the serial here should be 2003.

The controls look wrong and to me even the shape of the headstock and nut width look a little odd, but certainly the trussrod cover looks wrong

Actually I'm 100% sure it's fake.

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/counterfeitgibsons.aspx

[Dmoney]

Truss rod cover does look wrong.
That style of inlay I've only seen used on the 25/50 anniversary LP's, and those have different headstocks, TP-6 bridges and a little switch on them. The truss rod cover on those says 'anniversary' too and they weren't made in 2003. They are late 70's models and therefore also have a volute.
Gibson also puts binding over the edges of the frets along the neck. Granted if the frets have been changed then this might not still be there.
Is that board ebony? It should be on a '03 custom. Also, if that IS meant to be a custom and the case is meant to be legit, the custom case has a catch around where the cutaway is (not just a hinge) and this case doesn't have one. My 96 custom case has one at least and it also fastens with an additional combination lock at the side of the neck.
I've also never seen a custom in that colour.
Tailpiece placement looks odd, and so does the lack of a pickup selector plastic disc label thingy.

I'd join the calls to say it's fake.

[Philly Q]

Agreed with all the above.  It's hard to tell from a few poor-quality photos, but lots of details look a bit off, and that isn't even a Gibson case, for what it's worth.

As Dmoney mentioned, those are 25/50 Anniversary style inlays and I'm not aware of them appearing on any other model.  Plus on a real 25/50 the inlays only go as far as the 17th fret.

FAKE!

[Brow]

Thanks for the posts guys.

I'm not overly up on all of the details of what makes it a fake, luckilly you guys are! I'd noticed a Rosewood board instead of Ebony, and the case looked dodgy as no cover liner like my LP Standard case.

The inlays also threw me off a little bit, but after some Googling I did come across some genuine Gibson LP Customs that had those inlays so that 1 didn't flag up as definitely fake.

It is on Ebay so I may contact the seller and tell him it's fake incase he doesn't know. He might have been caught out himself, or he might be trying to con people.

[Dave Sloven]

The two most likely scenarios are (1) that he is selling it as a con via ebay and has gotten it from China for that purpose or (2) that he is selling it via ebay in the attempt to recoup some of the money he lost when he was conned by someone like (1), but in the process he will be conning someone else deliberately.

The least likely scenario is that he actually thinks it's a real Gibson, simply because (1) the price is low (suggesting the need for a quick sale) and (2) the difference in quality will be apparent in playing it.

If you look at the link above there are quite a few issues with these copies that suggest that they won't play or sound anything like a real Les Paul.

Personally I think the most likely scenario is that he is the unlucky guy who bought it and is now trying to get a little bit of his money back.

[Brow]

The two most likely scenarios are (1) that he is selling it as a con via ebay and has gotten it from China for that purpose or (2) that he is selling it via ebay in the attempt to recoup some of the money he lost when he was conned by someone like (1), but in the process he will be conning someone else deliberately.

The least likely scenario is that he actually thinks it's a real Gibson, simply because (1) the price is low (suggesting the need for a quick sale) and (2) the difference in quality will be apparent in playing it.

If you look at the link above there are quite a few issues with these copies that suggest that they won't play or sound anything like a real Les Paul.

Personally I think the most likely scenario is that he is the unlucky guy who bought it and is now trying to get a little bit of his money back.

Yeah, sounds about right.

Someone on another forum I posted this on has already emailled the guy to tell him it's fake, I would've done it myself but I'm at work and Ebays blocked :lol:.

Apparently the guy, and some of the bidders, know it's a fake hence all the low offers he's had. I'm hoping he changes the wording of the ad though as it's in no way worded that it's not a genuine Gibson.

[Dave Sloven]

One thing to remember is that I've seen even sellers with perfect ebay feedback do stuff like this on occasion and sacrifice their rating if the pay off is big enough and/or they think they can get away with it somehow.  I got my money back (it was something small, only $70 or so) but those who listened to the guy's email and didn't post a claim before the deadline expired would have been stung.  It doesn't matter how nice and genuine the guy seems I always put in a claim if it's not right by the time that 45 days expires.  It gives you an extension of time, even if it was just late getting to you.

[gwEm]

if it wasn't for the three screw truss rod and non-ebony board, I might have been taken in by that based on those pictures.

i expect it looks more wonky in the flesh.

[Philly Q]

One thing to remember is that I've seen even sellers with perfect ebay feedback do stuff like this on occasion and sacrifice their rating if the pay off is big enough and/or they think they can get away with it somehow.

It's strange that.  If I'd bought something which turned out to be fake I wouldn't dream of trying to sell it again as a genuine item, I'd (a) be too embarrassed and (b) wouldn't want to risk the negative feedback.

I suppose I might list it at a very low price and say THIS IS NOT A REAL GIBSON, DO NOT WASTE A LOT OF MONEY ON IT.  I wouldn't go so far as to actually use the word "fake", though, I guess eBay would pull the listing anyway.

[Dave Sloven]

I'm sure I saw a Chinese copy listed once on ebay, but with the emphasis on this being 'a very good copy' (which of course doesn't tell you much) and the price was low enough for people to take a punt on it if so inclined.  I doubt it sold though.  If you look at 'completed listings' on recent Australian ebay auctions you find that the majority of musical instruments advertised have simply failed to sell recently unless it was a sure thing and a good price.

[Philly Q]

If I was selling one, it's the sort of thing I'd put on a 99p start.  Give an honest description, then let market forces determine the price (and hope whoever wins isn't an idiot who didn't read the ad and thought it was genuine).  If it sells for £25, so be it.  If it sells for £250, I'd ask the buyer if they really wanted to pay that much....

It's a disgrace that Chinese knockoffs are passed off as the real thing, but if you could try one, knowing what it was, and it was cheap, it might not necessarily be a terrible guitar. 

Which isn't to say I'm advocating buying one, maybe the fake products "industry" really does fund drug trafficking, slavery and illegal arms trading like the adverts tell us, who knows.

[keith]

I would say fake, truss rod wrong I think the diamond inlay on headstock is too small, I've never seen a custom with those neck inlays either they are usually 1 solid inlay

[Brow]

I re-checked the auction yesterday afternoon when I got home and it was upto £902!

The guy had added a comment onto the auction saying it'd been bought to his attention that it was a copy, and to feel free to cancel bids etc.

The next time I checked it'd gone down to £600, which is still too much imo!