'Boutique gear' general grumpy rant.

[dave_mc]

I think there are definitely diminishing returns- to a certain extent it's subjective (and often dependent on the specific requirements) as to where the returns diminish too much (i.e. it's not worth it any more).

Also I agree that I'd differentiate between "good quality" (where the increase in price is justifiable) and "boutique" (where it often isn't, or is based on mythology/rarity/hype/etc.).

I was genuinely shocked by that.  Bloody cheek!

I don't think anything at TGP can shock me :lol:

[Zaned]

From the point of view of someone listening to a recording, or to a band on stage, they are completely irrelevant.  The relevance is only to the person actually playing the guitar.

As a listener, I shouldn't think I could tell the difference between a Squier Affinity and a Nik Huber Dolphin.  But if I played them, I'd know which I preferred.  Who knows, it might be the Squier, but if - for the sake of argument - it was the Huber, it's up to me whether I think those tiny details make it worth paying the extra.

This. The little things that make your playing a little better. If you e.g. improvise a lot of your leads, you'll probably play a better one on the guitar that doesn't fight you (in the wrong way!), but feels like an extension of you and feeds back at you. Sounds cheesy but that's how it is. Inspiration.

Of course, when you're playing a bar gig and just try to hear yourself over the beating drummer..:D At those moments it doesn't really matter what you have in your hands, as long as the playability is good it and it sounds good to the audience. They most likely won't hear (or notice) the difference anyway.

[MDV]

 if your playing style and ears are sensitive enough to appreciate it.

Psychoacoustics and expectation bias.

People pay thousands for glorified kettle leads for the same reasons.

Double-blind testing is a very, very interesting thing ;)

[Lew]

pernambuco

Think I saw that in Starbucks? :P

Indeed, no need to rant about it though  ;)

Yes. Yes, there is. That's what forums are for! That and passive aggressive trolling to ease my own feeble existence  :P

The trouble is though it's not like the old days where there was one pile of maple, one pile of mahogany and one team of builders.  Every raw material is graded into Studio/Standard/CS or Mexican/USA Std/CS and the time allocated to finishing is restricted.  Everything is built to its respective price point.

"You get what you pay for" has never been more true.

The sought after vintage Fenders are all just Mexican strats with a few years on 'em  :lol:

Stuff

I'd LOVE to see your collection. I'll settle for pics?

I do wonder if we recorded your collection PRS and say a SE and a cu24 with the exact same pickups and setup and played them back without anyone knowing which was which if anyone including yourself could really tell the difference.

I doubt we could and if we did it would likely be luck. But I bet we would all feel it in our hands, well, between the SE and CU anyway. The CU and Privatecollection, I'm guessing not so much.

STOP!

Listen..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZKlfRrGbw

Ahh isn't that better...

Good god I remember that.

The question is: how boutique is BKP? We all want them, don't we?

mmmm I would say they're good value. Go get a $550 pair of Throbak PAFs and compare em to Tims anniversary model or whatever the closest comparison would be, bet there aint anything in it.

Toe-Knee, apparently most people aren't cursed with the ability to hear these nuances and a recording would not demonstrate the feel or touch sensitivity. You might have to go find some private and collection PRS' and test em out and hope you can perceive the differences.

 :lol: meow

[Lew]

IT'S OK GAIS I MADE A CHART  :lol:

[Dave Sloven]

Double-blind testing is a very, very interesting thing ;)

Ever since I saw this, I've wanted to get a Squier!

BLINDFOLD TEST - Telecaster Squier vs Fender vs Custom Shop - Part 2

[Twinfan]

From the point of view of someone listening to a recording, or to a band on stage, they are completely irrelevant.  The relevance is only to the person actually playing the guitar.

As a listener, I shouldn't think I could tell the difference between a Squier Affinity and a Nik Huber Dolphin.  But if I played them, I'd know which I preferred.  Who knows, it might be the Squier, but if - for the sake of argument - it was the Huber, it's up to me whether I think those tiny details make it worth paying the extra.

This. The little things that make your playing a little better. If you e.g. improvise a lot of your leads, you'll probably play a better one on the guitar that doesn't fight you (in the wrong way!), but feels like an extension of you and feeds back at you. Sounds cheesy but that's how it is. Inspiration.

Yep. got to agree with both of you.  Whatever I play, I pretty much sound like me, but I don't get much joy playing a PRS SE even though it'll do the job.  No inspiration to me whatsoever.

[FELINEGUITARS]

BKP started as a "boutique" brand with just Tim and a couple of others winding.

Now Tim has more guys winding and some employees are called "sales manager" and "production manager" , but they are still in contrast to some companies a "boutique brand"

But how many people will they need to have on board before they are just another brand.

When he is the biggest employer in Cornwall I guess he won't be boutique

Most start up businesses in music industry get to grow out of a home business or hobby business and if they become popular face the dilemma of staying boutique or growing into a major player.

Come to think of it PRS were a boutique brand that grew and then got bigger again - maybe at some point had some serious capital invested in it  from outside.

[Philly Q]

IT'S OK GAIS I MADE A CHART  :lol:

I LOL'ed.  Did you really make that up?  :lol:

[Lew]

Yea MS paint haha

[Afghan Dave]

IT'S OK GAIS I MADE A CHART  :lol:

I LOL'ed.  Did you really make that up?  :lol:

LOVE the Devries track... Can't beat a little "Rhythm in jump. dancing close to you"  :lol: :lol:

[Zaned]

It does sometimes amuse me how people look at spending money on guitars  8) Now, the most I've spent on a single guitar is 2600 euros (3415 US dollars, said the currency converter just a moment ago), so I don't have VERY expensive guitars. Yet some people (non-playing friends mostly) sort of question these actions.

Buy a newish good quality car, and *poof*, you've probably spent more money than I currently have invested in musical gear. Or start a motorcycle hobby, pretty much the same thing happens. Yet that is 'accepted'. I know, it's the relative cost. But still. I do own a car, but if I could do without it, I would sell it immediately. I hate the amount of money it takes to own it, use it and to maintain it.

Some people use more money to pimp their cars than I've spent on a single guitar. That doesn't even increase their resale value, it actually makes it non-existent :D A small exaggaration but you get the point.

Even as a hobby - which it is for me, bread to the table comes from elsewhere - this is a cheap one. Especially if you buy second-hand and can spot a good deal when you see one. And unlike many other hobbies, this one can actually bring some money back :mrgreen:

[MDV]

Double-blind testing is a very, very interesting thing ;)

Ever since I saw this, I've wanted to get a Squier!

BLINDFOLD TEST - Telecaster Squier vs Fender vs Custom Shop - Part 2

That was brilliant.

Not double-blind, mind you. But it was pretty fairly done anyway.

I doubt anyone here would fare any better. I know I wouldnt. I try not to listen with my eyes, or with my wallet, but we all do to various degrees. Its unavoidable.

[JDC]

Chappers has a few videos comparing middle of the road guitars to the top end stuff, generally speaking the only difference I hear is the more expensive one is brighter and has much better sustain although I doubt the finer details come through on youtube but then they won't on a recording let alone in a mix. Even with expensive headphones that need an amp I can't tell the difference between a 128Kbps mp3 and a music file format that isn't compressed.

[Dave Sloven]

I can definitely tell the difference between a 128kbps or 160kbps MP3 and a 192kbps MP3.  Once you get above that it becomes more a matter of how good the equipment you are listening to with is.  In a car stereo for example with road noise etc 192kbps is absolutely fine.

In that video they don't plug the Teles into an amp, it's just a comparison of feel and unplugged sound, but as everyone here has pretty much swapped out pickups, pots, etc I didn't think that was much of an issue.

From a $$ and ding-paranoia perpective I'd rather have a Squier Tele with Piledrivers than a Fender Custom Shop Tele with Piledrivers!