Noob Question - please be gentle!

[darthphineas]

hey guys, first post.  been lurking a week or so.

have read about the BKP name for a while over on the Duncan forum, but finally decided to give it a go.  I've had a few emails with Tim and he's given his thoughts.  I also like to get as much info from as many sources as I can, so I thought I'd ask you guys as well.

a little background would be that I've been playing since '85.  as such, I lean toward that high-gain 80s rock and hard-rock.  my main 'real' rig is an ADA MP-1 with a BBE and a digital reverb into a power amp and to two 4x12s.  my newer 'e-rig' is the Line 6 UX-1 using the Pod Farm 2.5 Platinum (with all the bells and whistles), mainly so I can tinker with a wee bit of recording just to amuse myself.  I've been using the Duncan JB as the benchmark bridge pickup for all this time, just getting into Duncan Custom Shop models last years.  examples of the typical stuff I might jam to would include Night Ranger, Whitesnake, Ratt, Dokken, Scorpions, Def Leppard and so on.

there are a few guitars to consider, so it's not like I can keep it simple.  lol!  but the primary candidate would be either an alder solid body with rosewood bolt-on (80s Kramer or 80s ESP), or maybe a mahogany Hamer Centaura with rosewood bolt-on.  all my guitars are loaded with Floyds.

I'd like to stay in the same league as the Duncan JB with that midrange punch general vibe, but maybe with a little more concise/articulate/tighter low end... and a high end that still screams and pierces for the tapped/pinched harmonics, but with a touch of sweetness.  something that will sit well in the mix and still cut through with loads of sustain.

the models that have come up from other sources include the Holy Diver and the Rebel Yell.



what say you?



thanks!!

[Sarkasis]

I don't think the Holydiver would have quite the screaming highs you want, though otherwise it would work well. Heard lots of good things about the Rebel Yell, sounds like a good bet for you.

[Dave Sloven]

I'm betting that Tim told you the Rebel Yell.

I read somewhere though that it is quite similar to the JB - do you want something similar, or are you looking for something quite different?  I guess the Cold Sweat is another one to think about if you like ceramics.

[Brow]

My 1st thought for the Alder bodied Superstrat type would be the Holydiver, but it MAY not have the screaming highs you refer to.

My main thought would be to go with whatever Tim suggested to be honest. I know that sounds like a bit of a cop out, but the man really does know his stuff and he knows his products and market extremely well.

[darthphineas]

Tim suggested the Holy Diver.  and I have no reason to think that it wouldn't work.  except now you guys are thinking it might not have those screaming highs on the pinched/tapped harmonics - thinking of Gillis and Vai style of squeals, for example.

but after posting the question yesterday, I looked around to see a little more about what guitars SS uses.  his signature Hamer appears to have been mahogany.  he was also behind the Hamer Centaura for all of about five minutes (mine is mahogany, but many were alder).  while it appears that with Washburn he ended up picking poplar in a blind test and then going with JBs at that time (wow, about 20 years ago), but there were also some maple-capped Washburn SS models too.  then he was a big fan of the basswood w/maple top EBMM EVH and I'm guessing the LPs he uses are mahogany w/maple top.  I do really dig SS's playing, but I'm not a big SS-head...any more than just trying to get my head around liking his tone and trying to better understand how his guitars and the RY work together.  it turns out a lot of the woods he has used are also running the herd in my stable, so that leads me to think there could also similar tastes in pickup preferences.

it seems the if I went with the RY and it was too shrill or too clear in alder, that I have that mahogany Hamer... and then go with the HD for one of the other guitars.  see...who says it doesn't pay to have too many guitars?  lol!

as for the JB, I'd like something similar, but different.  like an improved version.  maybe a little tighter lows and slightly more open vibe to it.  it really need to have the gas to deal with some of those long sustained 22nd fret notes that always cap off the solos to all those 80s tunes.  lol!

[Dave Sloven]

but after posting the question yesterday, I looked around to see a little more about what guitars SS uses. 

Did you see the rig rundown?  I think it might be very useful for you

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30468.0

[FELINEGUITARS]

Seriously consider either the `Cold Sweat or Rebel Yell
In Duncan speak the cold sweat is like a little more open Duncan Custom  and the RY is in the Custom 5 ballpark
Both work well in Mahogany guitars but will work nicely in alder too.

The Cold Sweat was designed with John Sykes in mind (both Lizzy and Whitesnake eras)

Your list of bands looks like the playlist on my ipod (wearing a Dokken t shirt as I type this) and my own rig has had an MP1 and BBE in since about '88, although I am using Randall /Egnater more than the ADA these days.

My own selection of pickups for this stuff would be Cold Sweat/Rebel Yell/Holy Diver/Miracle Man
The CS and MM are ceramic magnet loaded - so v tight for rhythm playing (Lynch/Sykes/Rudy Schenker/Michael Schenker) but the CS is more open early 80s and the MM is more saturated low mids late 80s sound

In truth you probably wont go far wrong with any of them but it's just finding the best mix
If you are within striking distance of London you could pop in and try them out as I have pretty much all of them in something here

[Telerocker]

Holy Diver all the way. Follow Tim!

[darthphineas]

any comparisons to the Duncan Custom or the Custom 5 is a sure way to get me to loose interest.  lol!  don't care for those, especially the C5 with the scooped mids.  the BKP tone chart sorta indicate the opposite for those comparisons.

since I'm clearly in the colonies, I've checked with a few dealers on availability and I'd like to see more places either have single humbuckers (vs calibrated sets only) in stock and more places with the 53mm f-spacing.  however, a guy I talked to today that has used both the RY and the HD indicated they are very similar.

although there's something that keeps calling me toward the RY, there is a shop that has the 53mm HD that I'm considering.  if anyone sees any 53mm RY floating around, please keep me in mind.

[Dave Sloven]

I'm in the colonies too, but I ordered directly.  If you are outside the EU you miss out on the 20% VAT.  Even with the shipping to Australia it worked out cheaper than if I had to use the same Australian dollars to buy them in the UK.

That said the Aussie dollar has been dropping since February or so and I got a better deal currency-wise on my first set than on my second.

[darthphineas]

I'd be in the American colonies. 

there's at least one retailer that'd be more cost effective that going direct, even with the VAT.  but they only have one of the models I'm interested in, so I'll have to see how the selection process ends up.

[richard]

There is a general perception that there are similarities between the RY and HD but that the RY is more suited to darker guitars while the HD works better in bright guitars. Far be it for me to contradict Jonathon at Feline but, if the C5 is known for it's scooped mids, then it's nothing like the RY which is really punchy and full in the mid range.

My number one guitar for many years was a Gibson SG (all mahogany, rosewood board) with a JB at the bridge. I was totally content with this guitar. Number one now is a very similar guitar (Gibson Firebird Studio, all mahogany, rosewood board) with RYs. My SG rarely sees daylight any more. The last time I gigged with it I found the JB to be a very unsatisfactory experience compared to the RY. I think the RY would kill in your Hamer.

[fhn_lopes]

Why not a VHII??

I have one in my alder strat and it KILLS!! Very versatile pu, goes from a nice fat clean to ACDC tones and up to early van halen only in the guitar knob... If you use a high gain amp, it does metal in spades too. Huge low end, nice focused mids and spanky highs (but not harsh).

On the other hand, I can't see why the HD wouldn't work, actually, it would work well and wouldn't be dark sounding in a alder/maple guitar.

[darthphineas]

sounds like the best bet would be to try the RY and if it's too spanky in the alder, then it can always live in the mahogany...which I think would be the best place for it anyway.  seems like I'm looking at trying them both!  lol!



edit:  to remove my ignorance about the VHII that I addressed below.  lol!

[darthphineas]

Why not a VHII??

I have one in my alder strat and it KILLS!! Very versatile pu, goes from a nice fat clean to ACDC tones and up to early van halen only in the guitar knob... If you use a high gain amp, it does metal in spades too. Huge low end, nice focused mids and spanky highs (but not harsh).

On the other hand, I can't see why the HD wouldn't work, actually, it would work well and wouldn't be dark sounding in a alder/maple guitar.

you know, I'm a total dodo bird on this one.  I had a prejudice against the VHII partly because I apparently can't read properly and thought it has an A2 mag.  lol!  my rig and my style can be a little finicky with some A2-based models...but no, the VHII has an A5.

sweet stapp, now I've got 3 models on the line to have to decide between.  sounds like I can't go wrong with any of them.